Jump to content
ARC Discussion Forums

Recommended Posts

My modeling interest is limited to jets, but I have been doing a lot of reading and watching on F1. I am now particularly eyeing this kit:

 

http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10199437

 

I plan to build the above kit all closed (no exposed engines or brake discs etc.).  

 

I have collected quite a bit of WIP blogs and pictures of the real thing and finished models. But, I really have no clue what aspects of car / F1 modeling are different than say jet modeling (I've never built armor either). In the world of F1 kits, is the above kit well regarded and is it an easy kit to build and paint? What do judges of car models look for when judging these subjects? I don't plan on entering this to a contest, but a judge's perspective might be useful to understand. This can be about any aspect like quality of assembly, quality of panel lines, painting, decals etc. One thing that immediately jumps at me is the difficulty in applying the decals on the high shine metallic body (like the mobile 1 logo). It would be almost impossible not to see the carrier film unless each letter was cut out at the border and applied one by one. 

 

With jet modeling, washes, filters, and general weathering sometimes help tremendously for hiding those tiny glue seams or other imperfections. But looking at the above car (I plan to build it factory clean), no such tricks will apply here. Also, getting that metallic finish I am sure will be quite a challenge in itself. 

 

Also, browsing other builds, I see that carbon fiber decals seem to be pretty widespread. 

 

By now, you will have noticed that I have no idea what I am talking about, or even what my question is. But can you still help? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, being an open wheel car, the brake discs are going to be exposed anyway...  ;)

 

In terms of building and judging, car models aren't really all that different than aircraft.  Judging is still down to basics - clean assembly, smooth paint, proper alignment, etc.  Do all the wheels touch the ground?  Are the wings straight?  Is the paint smooth?  Is there glue or crazing around the windscreen?  Are there glue marks around the seam lines?  Are the decals properly applied (no silvering, not crooked, wrinkled, etc).  Did you remove the seams from the tires?  Generally speaking though, assembly is pretty similar.  There are a few different tricks and certain aspects will have more or less emphasis, but it's not wildly different.  For instance, car modellers tend to spend more time on engines and less time on cockpits; jet modellers will spend more time on cockpits and less time on engines.  You're not usually assembling a lot of major body parts to get the overall shape (vs. gluing fuselage/wings/tail), but you do more assembly after individual parts are completed (paint the wing elements, then glue them, then add the assembly to the body).  It's not like learning a new language, more like figuring out a different accent.  

 

The main difference will be paint.  On car models, you want high gloss; for aircraft, it's just 'good enough for decals', before you matte coat it.  It's not really a major secret, it's just a slightly different skill that takes some practice to master.  Generally, you'll want to apply clear gloss on top of your colour coats before polishing the paint.  This will add depth to your paint job, and reduce the risk of polishing through to primer/plastic.  Basically, if you start seeing colour on your polishing cloth, you know you've burned through the clear coat, so stop rubbing in that spot.  A number of auto modellers use 2-part urethane clear coats.  These generally go on smoother/glossier, and are tougher finishes, but they're far more noxious to spray, so require strict safety precautions.

 

You'll also spend more time adjusting alignment with an F1 car.  The suspension is complex so a lot of things need to line up, and the kit may not sit properly, which will require adjustment.  It's a good idea to use jigs to hold things in place, so you can tweak suspension elements individually.  In a similar vein, there's more *delicate* assemblies on an F1 car - stuff with small glue patches where alignment is critical (wings, suspension, etc.)

 

Carbon fiber will also be a little different.  If you're using decals, you'll either have to make your own templates (cover parts in masking tape, trim to size, apply to carbon decals, cut out and apply), or apply pre-made decals (like these).  They'll be more fiddly to apply than most aircraft decals, too, since they have to conform perfectly to complex curves.  Patience, decal sol, hot air (helps soften the decal once applied) and careful planning.  A new technique that's gaining popularity is to wet a Q-tip, then hold it against a soldering iron briefly to heat it up; you can then use the hot, wet Q-tip to help stretch the decals around the contours.

 

As I said, you'll also do more assembly once parts are painted and decalled.  Especially on an F1 car, since it would be impossible to polish all the wing elements after assembly.  That means you need a lot of *careful* assembly - tiny drops of CA or epoxy.  It's a balancing act between making things strong enough to handle, yet easy enough to finish.

 

Oh, and wheels.  You will want to remove the mold seam down the middle of the tires.  Simplest method is to slide the wheels onto a dowel, chuck the dowel in a drill, then hold some sandpaper against the tire while the drill spins.

 

Weathering... tends to be minimal on car models in general, and race cars in particular.  Which is kind of ironic, since race cars get *filthy* (especially Le Mans cars).  So yeah, while there may be fewer individual pieces, you need to be cleaner when putting them together.

 

-----

 

For that kit specifically...

 

Fujimi's reputation is kind of so-so for F1 models.  The fit isn't terrible, but not as good as Tamiya, so it takes more effort to get them together.  I suspect that, coming from the aircraft modelling world, you'll find it less of an issue than many car modellers (you're more used to assembling a shape from a bunch of parts).  It's more of an issue if you want to make the engine cover removable though; if you're building it curbside, you can just glue the panels where they need to go.

 

The paint is definitely going to be a problem.  I might actually look at doing a *different* car, first, just to avoid the chrome.  

 

If you do build the McLaren, you've got a number of chrome options.  Alclad is obvious, or AK Interactive; Spaz Stix is a similar alternative (slightly different shade and a little more robust); Gunze's Super Metallic is another choice, Gravity and Zero both do 'McLaren Chrome' paints and Kosutte Gin-San is a chrome powder that gets rubbed into a gloss black base.  Modelfactory Hiro sold a specific chrome paint with their 1/12 MP4/23, but it was expensive, and seems to be sold out.  You could also source the actual AzkoNobel paint, but it's *crazy* expensive (Mirrachrome may be more readily available, and it's $300/pint).  I'm not really sure what the current consensus is for the best choice though, as the options have changed since the last time I read up on it.

 

You also need to beware that most clear coats will attack your chrome paint and either reduce the shine or ruin it.  Lacquer finishes are basically a no-go.  Some of the special aqueous glosses that have come out are *better*, but can still dull the paint.  Expect to do some experimenting.  On the plus side...  clear coating the chrome will solve your decal problems - gloss coat, decal, gloss coat to seal the decals/hide the edges.

 

-----

 

Lastly, here are some build/gallery threads of the Fujimi MP4/27 on F1M.  Should give you a good idea of some of the potential issues with the kit, and how to finish it.

 

http://www.f1m.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=18755

http://www.f1m.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21477

http://www.f1m.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21064

http://www.f1m.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=20684

http://www.f1m.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=18766

http://www.f1m.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20262

 

F1M is a good site with lots of great, F1-specific info.  

Automotive Forums is another good resource.  http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=927

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody with a slight inclination of building an F1 car for the first time probably ran in the opposite direction after your post MoFo, thanks! :taunt:

 

Seriously, i'm looking to build my first car model soon which is a tamiya nissan rx7. if i can pull it off i'll go with whatever i can find of Senna afterwards so this topic is most welcome to me, thank you very much with the info and links. :worship:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

now that's eyecandy. unfortunately i'm only limited to what i can find locally but i'll surely be looking out for this cutey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the detailed answer. Answers nearly all of my unknowns and more. Now I feel I must build this kit just to see how it all goes. Your response prompted me to look more carefully into painting and polishing (something I've not done before). The WIP links are very useful too. Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, murad said:

now that's eyecandy. unfortunately i'm only limited to what i can find locally but i'll surely be looking out for this cutey.

 

It's a Fujimi kit, so shouldn't be *too* hard to find at a local hobby shop.  It's cheap, too.  They did a couple of versions - one based on his '81 DAP kart, another based on the '93 Masters race.  Same basic kit, but the '93 version has bodywork pieces.  Not 100% accurate for either, but they're simple, fun builds and really easy to upgrade or modify.

 

In terms of other Senna kits...

 

Tamiya's McLarens (and Lotus) are all pretty good.  They fit very well and are nicely detailed (though not superdetailed).  You'll need to add a bunch of plumbing and wiring if you want to expose the engine, but that goes with any auto model.

Fujimi's kits (Lotus 97t, MP4/6 and FW16) are all decent as well.  Fit isn't as good as Tamiya, but details are a little sharper given they're 25 years newer.  There will be several build threads on F1M, if you want to find more info.

 

With either Fujimi or Tamiya, you will need to source aftermarket decals for any tobacco sponsors, unless you want to build a car from a race where it was banned.  The kits come with "LOTUS" or "McLaren" titles (or barcodes), rather than "Camel" or "Marlboro".

 

Or if you want to go nuts, you could always get the 1/12 MFH MP4/4:  http://www.modelfactoryhiro.com/new/en/archives/9359

 

Speaking of going nuts, Top Studio have released amazing superdetail sets for the 1/20 MP4/4 and 1/12 MP4/6 kits.  (you can view the instructions via the 'Downloads' link at the bottom of the page)

 

2 hours ago, Janissary said:

Your response prompted me to look more carefully into painting and polishing (something I've not done before).

 

If you Google 'polishing model cars' you'll get a ton of results, videos and tips, but here's a decent tutorial: http://italianhorses.net/Tutorials/PerfectPaint/paint.htm  

 

The biggest issue when polishing will be burning through your paint, exposing the primer or plastic underneath.  The basic issue is, corners and edges tend to get less paint built up, but it's easy to apply more pressure in a concentrated spot on corners when you're polishing.  Adding a clear coat over your colour coat will help - you'll have more paint to remove before you get down to primer/plastic.  Plus, it will give you a visual cue for your progression - if you see silver on your polishing cloth, you know you've removed all the clear in that area, and you're now removing paint... so stop!  :)  Ultimately, it's about exercising care and patience: go slowly and carefully, avoiding corners and raised details while you polish the smooth areas.  Some people actually use tape to cover spots that will be easy to polish through.

 

Again though, that chrome will make things trickier.  The chrome layer will be incredibly thin, so you can't touch it when polishing, but you can't really lay a thick, heavy lacquer gloss (I don't think urethanes play nicely with chrome, either) to protect it.  You *might* be able to seal the chrome with something like Aqua Gloss Clear, then shoot a heavier lacquer gloss on top, but that would take some experimenting.  And I don't know how well Aqua Gloss Clear will polish out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

car modelling in general and wrt compounds and polishing, they also serve the purpose of removing any dust and foreign objects that might have rained down on the model whilst the paintjob is curing. which is my only concern honestly, keeping the paint dust free, which i have no solution for. no matter what i did so far, dust is omnipresent. besides rubbing motion is going to create static electricity, no idea how to "ground" the models, if it's even possible... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anti-static wipes will eliminate static.

 

Cover the model while the paint dries - a plastic tub over the model will keep keep dust from falling on the surface. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/26/2017 at 8:47 PM, MoFo said:

Carbon fiber will also be a little different.  If you're using decals, you'll either have to make your own templates (cover parts in masking tape, trim to size, apply to carbon decals, cut out and apply), or apply pre-made decals (like these).  They'll be more fiddly to apply than most aircraft decals, too, since they have to conform perfectly to complex curves.  Patience, decal sol, hot air (helps soften the decal once applied) and careful planning.  A new technique that's gaining popularity is to wet a Q-tip, then hold it against a soldering iron briefly to heat it up; you can then use the hot, wet Q-tip to help stretch the decals around the contours.

Have you heard of this company?
They have Carbon fiber decals.
https://www.scalemotorsport.com/
Or any of these ones?
http://www.rocketfin.com/formula-one-model-cars.cfm
http://www.spotmodel.com/index.php
http://www.rbmotion.com/

http://www.mshobbies.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×