Thomas Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hello all, is the Skunkworks Russian missiles set necessary for depicting a realistic loadout, or is everything in the kit itself? Thanks. Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Thomas said: Hello all, is the Skunkworks Russian missiles set necessary for depicting a realistic loadout, or is everything in the kit itself? Thanks. Thomas the kit don't provide enough missiles to fill all the stations/pylons... but if you wanted to depict a realistic loadout it shouldn't prove to be a problem. (only airshow static display aircraft have them all loaded (with all kinds of ordinances) ...and aircraft that flew missions over Syrias (not all pylons loaded neither, but they carried 2 bombs on their centerline pylons) cheers Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Thanks! That helps a lot! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 you're welcome! the missile set box itself have twice more missiles than the Su-33 kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 13 hours ago, Thomas said: is the Skunkworks Russian missiles set necessary for depicting a realistic loadout, or is everything in the kit itself? As mentioned, it doesn't include enough missiles for the full load, but it rarely carries a full load. The bigger problem in my eye is that it only includes 2 AKU-470 pylons where there are 6 potential stations that have this pylon. The instructions have you place the 2 pylons on the inboard wing station, the least often used station. The intakes pretty much always have the pylons mounted as do the 2 belly stations. They are mounted whether the missiles are attached or not. If you're not adding any aftermarket I'd recommend using them on the intakes as they are the most visible. As for aftermarket there is the Skunkworks set or Eduard offer Alamo sets that include pylons. Each Eduard set (Alamo_A, B or C) includes 4 AKU-470 as well as the wing pylons. AFAIK the Skunkworks set includes the same parts as the kit, only 2 AKU-470s, which would still leave you short by 2 pylons if you want a "Full load". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 good call Chris. i remember that point being raised when the kit was released. ...but for some reason i forgot about that. i think i'm gonna cast my own resin copies of the kit's parts (for my very own use, needless to say!) to fulfill my pylon needs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Chris, many thanks for this additional information. Then I will go the Eduard route. Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dehowie Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Su-33's carry a full rack off the carrier is a very rare affair indeed. Id go Skunkworks and i did plus an Eduard set. Skunkworks wins by a long margin simply of ease of build... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, dehowie said: Skunkworks wins by a long margin simply of ease of build... ...And, their missiles and pylons appear to have been well researched and accurate... Edited March 4, 2017 by Zactoman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) On 4.3.2017 at 1:39 PM, dehowie said: Id go Skunkworks and i did plus an Eduard set. @dehowieWhat do you try to tell me? ;) BTW, it is nearly impossible to find a Su-33 kit which is not totally overpriced and/or exorbitant shipping costs. Thomas Edited March 5, 2017 by Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) the best place to order one is Lucky Models. but they are "backorder" by now... the only way i find to get it "cheaper" was to wait for one of LM sales...and ask for surface shipping. but you have to be patient if you want to do any savings. Edited March 5, 2017 by mingwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 (edited) On 3/4/2017 at 3:46 AM, Zactoman said: As mentioned, it doesn't include enough missiles for the full load, but it rarely carries a full load. The bigger problem in my eye is that it only includes 2 AKU-470 pylons where there are 6 potential stations that have this pylon. The instructions have you place the 2 pylons on the inboard wing station, the least often used station. The intakes pretty much always have the pylons mounted as do the 2 belly stations. They are mounted whether the missiles are attached or not. If you're not adding any aftermarket I'd recommend using them on the intakes as they are the most visible. As for aftermarket there is the Skunkworks set or Eduard offer Alamo sets that include pylons. Each Eduard set (Alamo_A, B or C) includes 4 AKU-470 as well as the wing pylons. AFAIK the Skunkworks set includes the same parts as the kit, only 2 AKU-470s, which would still leave you short by 2 pylons if you want a "Full load". It says here one each of eight sprues, so from the text I'd expect there are 8 AKU-470 pylons included in the set rather than just 2? https://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/skunk/kit_skunk_48029.shtml In the Su-33 kit, yes, it seems only 2 are provided in the kit for some reason, even though 6 are shown as used in the instructions. But, I have to disagree that the inboard wing station rarely use the AKU-470, as I see them fitted in most of the armed Su-33 photos (while the APU-470 is always on the outer one). Regarding the APU-470, the kit uses a bigger single piece adapter, while plenty of the photos show the two part one, but I can't seem to make any rule out of it as both types appeared on the prototypes. A bit OT, but speaking of pylons, what would be these WA7 ones provided by HB in the Su-27 kit? They are obviously not the AKU-470 ones, so some alternative should be found for those if R-27's would be put there (like e.g. the Eduard kit). They also seem to show WA3 parts to be used on outboard wing position, but these are AKU-170 pylons for R-77 missiles. Fortunately, the kit also provides the APU-470 pylons which should be used instead. I have both kits so I'm trying to see what's missing. IIRC, I have one Eduard R-27R missile set for the MiG-29, so that's extra 4 AKU's, but thanks to the HB providing only two AKU's as well, I'm still short for a full load. Edited March 6, 2017 by ijozic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 23 hours ago, ijozic said: It says here one each of eight sprues, so from the text I'd expect there are 8 AKU-470 pylons included in the set rather than just 2? https://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/skunk/kit_skunk_48029.shtml In the Su-33 kit, yes, it seems only 2 are provided in the kit for some reason, even though 6 are shown as used in the instructions. But, I have to disagree that the inboard wing station rarely use the AKU-470, as I see them fitted in most of the armed Su-33 photos (while the APU-470 is always on the outer one). Regarding the APU-470, the kit uses a bigger single piece adapter, while plenty of the photos show the two part one, but I can't seem to make any rule out of it as both types appeared on the prototypes. My bad on the number of Skunkworks pylons. Yes, the review says 24 pylons/adapters. If it's 8 of each then that enough APUs for 4 Su-27/33s but only enough AKU-470s for 2 Su-27/33s. From most of the pics I've found, the prototypes and early operational Su-33s carried the inboard wing AKU-470 or at least the stub pylons to mount them. Most all pictures of current Su-33s don't have the inboard stubs or the pylon mounted, though you can find a few. For both the APU-470 and APU-73 adapters, from what I've seen only the prototype and very early operational Su-33s had the two-piece. Current ones use the single piece adapter as provided in the kit. 23 hours ago, ijozic said: A bit OT, but speaking of pylons, what would be these WA7 ones provided by HB in the Su-27 kit? They are obviously not the AKU-470 ones, so some alternative should be found for those if R-27's would be put there (like e.g. the Eduard kit) Those are shrunken down versions of the Trumpeter 1/32 Su-27 centerline pylons. I think they are supposed to be AKU-470s, but just slightly wrong in shape. I made replacements for the 1/32 kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Zactoman said: From most of the pics I've found, the prototypes and early operational Su-33s carried the inboard wing AKU-470 or at least the stub pylons to mount them. Most all pictures of current Su-33s don't have the inboard stubs or the pylon mounted, though you can find a few. I was mostly checking some books, but I guess those are older photos then. What about the in-between engine nacelles ones? Are those regularly populated? IIRC, I've read some speculation that there might be some (aerodynamic?) issues with those, but I don't remember seeing any real sources for that. Quote Those are shrunken down versions of the Trumpeter 1/32 Su-27 centerline pylons. I think they are supposed to be AKU-470s, but just slightly wrong in shape. I made replacements for the 1/32 kit. They are slightly thinner than AKU-470's and the front edge is the same as rear, unlike the AKU-470 shape. Since the other pylons are proper AKU's/APU's, I presumed this might be based on some real thing as well, but I couldn't find anything similar (though it's hard to find many photos of this area). But, if they are from the 1/32 kit, then that might be an explanation as IIRC the pylons were a mess on that kit, unlike the MiG-29M/K kits where they pretty much correctly shaped. Thanks for the hint. Edited March 7, 2017 by ijozic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 15 minutes ago, ijozic said: I was mostly checking some books, but I guess those are older photos then. What about the in-between engine nacelles ones? Are those regularly populated? IIRC, I've read some speculation that those might cause some issues. I don't know for certain. I recall reading the same thing about the centerlines somewhere. I'm not finding any pics with them populated other than prototypes and early ones. They do always have the pylons in place though. Where are all these Russians I keep hearing about? I'm sure they would have an answer for us. 15 minutes ago, ijozic said: But, if they are from the 1/32 kit, then that might be an explanation as IIRC the pylons were a mess on that kit. Thanks for the hint. Yup, a mess. It appears that they include 2 of the slightly wrong versions where the 1/32 had two different wrong ones: It looks as though they might have improved the wingtip pylons though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Many thanks for these most informative answers! So my way will be the Skunkworks set, when I find a Su-33. Problem is that when I order at LM, the kit will not be only 75Euros including shipping, but there is a high risk, that customs wants another 19% VAT on top (including the shipping costs), so the kit will be around 90 Euros. Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ijozic Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Thomas said: Many thanks for these most informative answers! So my way will be the Skunkworks set, when I find a Su-33. Problem is that when I order at LM, the kit will not be only 75Euros including shipping, but there is a high risk, that customs wants another 19% VAT on top (including the shipping costs), so the kit will be around 90 Euros. Thomas I did get mine from LM on release and paid hefty customs fee, so I'd suggest to try to prowl the ebay as they pop up occasionally. There's one on German ebay as we speak, for example. Edited March 7, 2017 by ijozic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 Goot a kit now. One of the German importers got 5(!) kits this week. Next is the Skunkworks set. Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
muswp1 Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 Would 2 R-73's on the wing tips and 2 R-73's and 2 R-27's under the wings be a standard loadout for a regular duty SU-33? From the photo's I've seen it seems like that would be the max they could carry and still get off the carrier's deck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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