BillS Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I've just started my second ZM F-4J; this one to be a Blue Angel jet. After rooting around, I can't find a really definitive color. I know Model Master does one that looks good and CAM's decal instructions have a recipe they say is most correct. Both look darkish to me. I'm also thinking the blue has been varied over the years. Any thoughts? Does anyone have definitive cockpit info? I do know the pilot's radar scope was replaced by a bearing distance heading indicator, accelerometer and vor. I assume the rio's scope was also removed. I do have the Thunderbirds -1 supplement showing the differences on their E's. I think the pilot's main panel was pretty much the same between the two squadrons according to what scant photo evidence there is. Any comment here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Make sure you check photos. I believe they had the short nozzles found on the C/D and not the typical ones you find in the J/S series. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Not only the nozzles but no bellows probe, the smoke probe and the ADF antenna in the rear canopy. I haven't figured out how I'm going to duplicate that bit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) Krylon true blue is the paint used by the blue angels for their "touch ups" I have already use it with great success. but you must decant the paint before use with an airbrush. Edited March 7, 2017 by mingwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snowbird3a Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 this for light reading; http://tailspintopics.blogspot.ca/2011/04/blue-angel-blue-and-gold-draft.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Actually, you need to check photos, as Darren says, but, the reason is that some were early F-4J, with the B nozzles,,,,,,and some of the later jets were "true F-4J" aircraft, with the late nozzles. Coupled with the nozzles differences, the bare metal area just above and behind, as well as forward, of the nozzles changed for two reasons. The B engines would have more metal ahead of the nozzle, and the J would have less. Then some aircraft had a straight line from that area to the tail, and the others had the traditional notched area found on most Naval F-4s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 There is also a good article about the different afterburner nozzles at Tommy's Tailspin Topics blog linked above. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I found the nozzle Blog post. But, I know we had a discussion somewhere about the Blue Angels "metal area" shape change,,,,,,and maybe about BuNos that the Blues used at different times. But, no matter what search terms I use, I can't find it. (I know that some will call this "rivet counting", but, the shape of the "silver area" and the burner can size is something on the Blue's Phantoms that draws the viewer's eyes) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 if you don't wanted to bother, and keep the long nozzle, you could try to depict a late BA F-4J... or one like this one, beginning its new career for the NATC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 That photo shows off the area differences above and behind the jet nozzle that I was talking about. A quick and dirty way to tell if they get F-4B nozzles or F-4J is to look at the BuNo on your decal sheet. If the BuNo is 1530xx, it is from the first batch and has the F-4B nozzles and either the "smooth" or "jagged" edge to the metal area. (depends on the show season) If the BuNo is from the 153xxx series, it is a "real F-4J" being used by the Blues, with the long nozzles. The front Sparrows also changed color from Blue to Yellow, depending on the show season. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 The nozzle issue is an easy one as the markings I'm using are CAM's. The Bu Nos are all from the 1969 team. Therefore the jets were brand new and had the -8 motors w/early style nozzles. The sheet metal fairing "lip" or "seal" will be a bit tricky since it is a separate piece on the ZM kit and represents the later style used on the -10 motor. This tells me when ZM does a B, C, or D or N, they'll have the correct, wider fairing. Either way, I'll cobble something together. I like the detail on Aires nozzles so will probably employ those. Now, it's that flipp'n ADF antenna in the rear canopy that has me stumped! For photo reference I'm using an old BA yearbook, a torn up copy of "Threshold" with loads of color pics, "Reflections in Blue" and anything else I can dig up online. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Anyone have a good view of the ADF antenna? I can see it in photos, but none of them are clear enough to get a good idea of the shape. I'm thinking that if the shape is known, one could print it on clear decal film and apply it to the inside of the canopy. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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