F4DPhantomII Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Were they capable of using the Aim 54 Phoenix missiles when they started flying the F-14? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fighting Eighty-Four Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 It is my understanding that they could ONLY fire AIM-54s at the beginning. I thought I read somewhere that all of the F-14 kills during the Iran Iraq war were with the Phoenix. But I am sure someone more knowledgeable on the subject can expand on this... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Justicebringer Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Fakour-90 is the Iranian version of the Phoenix. t’s almost identical to the AIM-54 Phoenix and, more than a brand new missile, is just a domestically upgraded, partially reverse engineered version of the famous long range missile carried by the U.S. Navy Tomcat. https://theaviationist.com/2013/09/26/farouk-missile/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG Hunter Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 14 hours ago, F4DPhantomII said: Were they capable of using the Aim 54 Phoenix missiles when they started flying the F-14? Absolutely. That was the idea when procuring them. Watch this 3 episode Iranian documentary (in English) aired from PressTV in 2012. Interesting footage and interview with actual pilots who scored MiG kills using Phoenix. Part1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sya-9XDpfiM Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BJ1cdMHzKM Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNmgR_zcTNI Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zark Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 For me, the most interesting photo I've seen is this one and is an inspiration for my Iranian Tomcat...coming soon... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MiG Hunter Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) This was an unsuccessful attempt by IRIAF to install R-27 Alamo missiles on Tomcats in the 90's. The project was called "Project Storm" but it never took off as they hit a deadend. Tomcat's radar and R-27 electronics could never be integrated. Edited March 8, 2017 by MiG Hunter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zark Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Thanks for the info MiG Hunter! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Phoenix, yes from day one. Just make sure you use AIM-54A models as the revolution happened before the AIM-54Cs came online in the USN (A models had I believe a set of cooling fairing boxes on the missile bodies). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 I remember rumors coming from the intel community that Iran at one time or another transferred an AIM-54 or two to the (then) Soviet Union. I don't know if it was ever proven, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Iranian F-14 also use the AIM-7(E?) Sparrow and AIM-9J Sidewinder, and from what I understand have scored kills with them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scotthldr Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 ..... and don't forget that the Hawk SAM was adapted for use by the Iranian F-14's as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 The Hawk SAM was tested, but unsuccessfull if I understand it correctly? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KursadA Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Interfacing a radar-guided missile to an existing AA radar (that it is not intended to be used with from the start) is a difficult enough task even with full technical support from the radar's manufacturer. It is pretty much impossible without support, no matter how skilled the Iranian engineers are, or what they claim. This humble electrical engineer believes that reports of Alamo or Hawk interoperability with the AWG-9 are pretty much bombastic BS. We will see some very interesting A-A weaponry on Iranian Phantoms (and not Tomcats) when the rumored Chinese upgrade program is complete, and when the Iranian Phantom fleet is upgraded with a modern Chinese radar. This should enable a whole bunch of Chinese air-to-air missiles to be used on the Phantom; and provide interesting scale modeling possibilities. If that upgrade program is successful, a Chinese upgrade for the Tomcats could be a distinct possibility. Until then, I think they are limited to the Sidewinder/Sparrow/Phoenix clones they claim to be manufacturing. Edited March 9, 2017 by KursadA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan_Lotton Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 19 hours ago, Niels said: The Hawk SAM was tested, but unsuccessfull if I understand it correctly? It's successful but not as capable as the Phoenix in the same role... It's been carried in regular service by the AliCats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 On 3/9/2017 at 10:59 AM, scotthldr said: ..... and don't forget that the Hawk SAM was adapted for use by the Iranian F-14's as well. Integrated, but to call it a success would be a real stretch. They had to fool the stores management system into thinking the weapon was an AIM-54 (not sure how they did that), and the missile had a really terrible time talking to the AWG-9 radar. There was also a very limited employment envelope in which the tomcat had to be considerably lower in altitude than the target they were aiming at. The missile had something like a 15% success rate during the "project skyhawk" tests. There are a number of specially modded MIM-23s in Iranian inventory for Tomcat use still, but I don't think anyone expects them to do any good. They were only intended to be a stop-gap measure until they could complete their reverse-engineering of the AIM-54A anyhow, which now that they have, they're pretty much useless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 On 3/9/2017 at 5:17 PM, KursadA said: Interfacing a radar-guided missile to an existing AA radar (that it is not intended to be used with from the start) is a difficult enough task even with full technical support from the radar's manufacturer. It is pretty much impossible without support, no matter how skilled the Iranian engineers are, or what they claim. This humble electrical engineer believes that reports of Alamo or Hawk interoperability with the AWG-9 are pretty much bombastic BS. We will see some very interesting A-A weaponry on Iranian Phantoms (and not Tomcats) when the rumored Chinese upgrade program is complete, and when the Iranian Phantom fleet is upgraded with a modern Chinese radar. This should enable a whole bunch of Chinese air-to-air missiles to be used on the Phantom; and provide interesting scale modeling possibilities. If that upgrade program is successful, a Chinese upgrade for the Tomcats could be a distinct possibility. Until then, I think they are limited to the Sidewinder/Sparrow/Phoenix clones they claim to be manufacturing. They introduced some solid-state electronics upgrades/replacements for their existing AWG-9 inventory in an attempt to modernize them about 5 years ago. They allege that the radars now work better than they originally did. Believe it or not. It's old tech, so almost any modern electronics are bound to improve it somehow, at least in terms of reliability (the AWG-9 was alleged to be a notoriously finicky radar system on the best of days, considerably less so in the hands of the iranians, I'm sure) They'd just about need a new radar and stores management system to handle any chinese weaponry. It probably wouldn't be hard to make. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KursadA Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 4 hours ago, Skull Leader said: They introduced some solid-state electronics upgrades/replacements for their existing AWG-9 inventory in an attempt to modernize them about 5 years ago. They allege that the radars now work better than they originally did. Believe it or not. There is nothing hard to believe here - similar subsystem replacements / upgrades are done around the world for all kinds of older electronics. They can easily redesign one of the older subsystems of the radar, study its basic characteristics, and design a (better performing) solid-state replacement for it. Unlike the crazy claims of Alamo or Hawk integration on Tomcat, this is well within the capabilities of Iranians - no arguments there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vidar_710 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 FYI. The name of the AIM-54 is quite fitting. It literally was reborn from a earlier weapon system... The AIM-47, which was intended for use on the YF-12 program. Tracy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks Skull Leader - as I thought Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bushande Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) That Iran gave a Phoenix to the Russians is at least to the date only an unconfirmed rumor and is at least mostly denied by Iranian officials. Regarding Russian missile systems on a Tomcat, it is at least proclaimed by Iran that the few Tomcats that apparently underwent the current "Baba'ee" upgrade program are capable of employing the R-27 with plans to also integrate the capability to employ the R-73 but so far no visual evidence has ever surfaced that might give actual proof to these claims. To what extend Iran still pursues any upgrades on their Phantom fleet has become somewhat questionable now that a lot of effort is placed on acquiring SU-30s which would be slated to replace the F-4 fleet. Edited April 3, 2017 by bushande Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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