Skinny_Mike Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Hi guys! A while back i asked about the typical weapons carried by VF-84 over Vietnam in 1965. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the post with everyone's replies. So I unfortunately need to ask again. I remember that they carried LAU-3 rocket pods slant loaded on TERs on the inboard wing pylons, but not much else. Here is what I'm thinking, please correct me if i am wrong: 2 AIM 7s in the aft wells 2 AIM 9s one on each wing Wing Tanks on the outboards 4 LAU 3s on the inboards (2 each) MER with 6 Mk82s on the centerline I really want to do the iron bombs with the rocket pods, i'm just not sure where they should go! Thanks again for the help! Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 i'm no expert on F-4B. but i have take a look at a few thousand pictures of them... it's not common to see a Navy Phantom with outboard wing tanks. the very few photos i've seen where of aircraft parked at various NAS. maybe Marines F-4 operated from ground bases might have used them. for the rest of the payload i can't confirm anything... the 1964 vf-84 photos i've seen seem to indicate that they where only equipped with missiles...dunno for 1965... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Well, first off NO wing tanks. I corresponded a while with a VF-84 pilot who was also a POW in 'Nam 7 years (stunning in and of itself). He said, and I quote, "I NEVER flew with wing tanks...". Centerline tank was what they did, which I know ruins your centerline MER hopes. He said they flew with pretty much every type of air to ground ordnance imaginable in 'Nam. I did my JRoger F-4B as follows: -Centerline tank -2 x AIM-9B's (one on each inner pylon, outer side; inner side rails removed) -2 x AIM-7's in aft wells -MER on the outer pylons, each with a single Mk 83 1,000 pounder on the forward lower point This was based on a photo of their sister squadron VF-41 taken at the same time period during their Vietnam ops. Wasn't sure why they had a huge MER on the outers for a single Mk 83, but there it was...think someone said it was either for C/G issues or just in a hurry to load up and go with what they had. I would suggest the following based on your wishes: -iron bombs on the outer pylons...maybe single Mk 83's direct to the pylon? -LAU-3's on a slant-two configuration on the inner pylons, with a single Sidewinder on each wing -Centerline tank -2 x AIM-7's in aft wells Edited March 16, 2017 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) A pair of VF-41 F-4s from the same cruise, bottom pic, with a pair of Mk-81 Snakeyes on the o/b MERs: http://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv62-65/084.htm most likely MERs were installed and whatever load was called for was loaded on the MERs. I remember seeing a pic of a F-4 with a Mk-79 fire bomb on the same position as the Mk-83 mentioned above. Jari Edited March 16, 2017 by Finn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Or, since the "practice of carrying wings tanks while on the boat was stopped at some point",,,,,,,you could go with the time period before that practice was halted. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fn7.alamy.com%2Fzooms%2F1f657f8be28e4ac89eb9f3f5813d4ab7%2Ff-4j-of-vf-84-launches-from-uss-independence-cva-62-c1968-hfbb98.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fstock-photo%2Fvf-84.html&docid=6plLU7WVj1GaDM&tbnid=XKu_PijVUCWaZM%3A&vet=1&w=640&h=458&bih=765&biw=1225&q=Vf-84 F-4b&ved=0ahUKEwjj1qCk3dvSAhUHOyYKHeBqAqU4yAEQMwhSKE8wTw&iact=mrc&uact=8#h=458&imgrc=XKu_PijVUCWaZM:&vet=1&w=640 While true that photos of wing tanks while onboard ship are rare online,,,,,,,,they abound in books. (note that the photo found via Google is after the switch from "black flag" tails to "all black" tails, is the later F-4J, and the squadron still has some McDonnell tanks) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 It probably also depended on the squadron what their standard configuration was, as you can see in the pics here, scroll down a bit: http://www.usscoralsea.net/pics1960s9.php Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skinny_Mike Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Thanks very much for the help folks, I really appreciate it. Based on Andrew's recommendation I think I am going to go with the following: CL Tank 2 AIM-7s in the aft wells 2 AIM-9s, outboard on the center pylons 2 LAU-3s slant loaded on TERS on each inboard station Iron Bombs on the Outboards, probably 2 or 4 Mk-82s on a MER on each side. I'll make that decision when its time. Thanks again! Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Post pics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skinny_Mike Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said: Post pics! Sure will! Gotta clear a few things off the bench first, then I should be getting started. Thanks again. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) 18 hours ago, Rex said: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fn7.alamy.com%2Fzooms%2F1f657f8be28e4ac89eb9f3f5813d4ab7%2Ff-4j-of-vf-84-launches-from-uss-independence-cva-62-c1968-hfbb98.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fstock-photo%2Fvf-84.html&docid=6plLU7WVj1GaDM&tbnid=XKu_PijVUCWaZM%3A&vet=1&w=640&h=458&bih=765&biw=1225&q=Vf-84 F-4b&ved=0ahUKEwjj1qCk3dvSAhUHOyYKHeBqAqU4yAEQMwhSKE8wTw&iact=mrc&uact=8#h=458&imgrc=XKu_PijVUCWaZM:&vet=1&w=640 Rex, You could go here and drag the TinyURL! link onto your browser shortcut toolbar. Then the giant above could turn into this midget: http://tinyurl.com/kpgwlp4 Gene K Edited March 17, 2017 by Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Thanks Gene, long links don't usually show up,,,,,,,,I didn't know what to do with that huge one, so I left it alone so I didn't break it. http://tinyurl.com/kpgwlp4 okay, installed and tested, it works just fine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mawz Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Bit of a thread resurrection, but I've got the same question for a different cruise. building the Academy J in VF-84 paint for the 1972 cruise on the FDR. Want to do a typical strike config, preferably with the in-box ordnance, although I'm open to acquiring ordnance if necessary. Can I assume that I'm looking a Centreline tank, TER's on the wing with MK82's, AIM-7's in the rear and 2-4 AIM-9's? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 11 hours ago, mawz said: Can I assume that I'm looking a Centreline tank, TER's on the wing with MK82's, AIM-7's in the rear and 2-4 AIM-9's? Sounds about right to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Just curious, but what exactly would a an F-4 squadron be striking in the Med in 1972? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mawz Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Joe Hegedus said: Just curious, but what exactly would a an F-4 squadron be striking in the Med in 1972? I'd assume practice on the range? I'm not wedded to live ordnance, just a legit strike loadout rather than air to air. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 9 hours ago, Joe Hegedus said: Just curious, but what exactly would a an F-4 squadron be striking in the Med in 1972? Squadrons still did training with live ordnance while out on a Med cruise, qual's have to be maintained and they have to use up their NCEA some how. NCEA - Non-Combat Expenditure Allowance, ie, the ordnance they are allotted for training purposes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Even practice weapons were used as the one on the right is carrying a practice bomb rack: June 1967 in the Med Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted August 11, 2019 Share Posted August 11, 2019 On 8/9/2019 at 8:51 PM, GW8345 said: Squadrons still did training with live ordnance while out on a Med cruise, qual's have to be maintained and they have to use up their NCEA some how. NCEA - Non-Combat Expenditure Allowance, ie, the ordnance they are allotted for training purposes. Or a Fallon Det for pre-deployment workups. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 What I find interesting in the VF-102/33 pic above is the use of wing tanks. Some squadrons used them, others no.....all I know is the VF-84 pilot I corresponded with was very, very adamant that they never used them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 On 8/9/2019 at 12:49 PM, Joe Hegedus said: Just curious, but what exactly would a an F-4 squadron be striking in the Med in 1972? Crete ... -Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 5 hours ago, GreyGhost said: Crete ... -Gregg Do tell, why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Joe Hegedus said: Do tell, why? It's there ...? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 As far as the wing tank issue, that may a have been a matter of the time period. Probably as the planes got older and fatigue became more of an issue they decided not to use the wing tanks to save hours on the wings. Maybe? Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 The use of wing tanks on any aircraft is dictated by the mission profile, ordnance load and sortie time (duration) etc. It is not up to the whims of the pilot or the squadron. It’s all in the tasking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mawz Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Geoff M said: As far as the wing tank issue, that may a have been a matter of the time period. Probably as the planes got older and fatigue became more of an issue they decided not to use the wing tanks to save hours on the wings. Maybe? Geoff M These were quite new aircraft at the time of these cruises. 1 hour ago, habu2 said: The use of wing tanks on any aircraft is dictated by the mission profile, ordnance load and sortie time (duration) etc. It is not up to the whims of the pilot or the squadron. It’s all in the tasking. It's pretty clear that some units preferred to run a centreline tank and weapons on the wing, while others ran a centreline weapons fit and tanks on the wing. The two fits had fairly similar fuel capacities (either 600gal centreline or 740gal in 370gal x 2 wing tanks) and you were looking at 6 Mk82's on the weapons racks in question for either configuration in a standard strike configuration (plus up to another 6 on the inner wing pylons of course). So unless that mild increase in fuel was required for the tasking the squadron could go with either configuration for the same tasking and have the same capability. Edited August 14, 2019 by mawz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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