Colin K Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I've been mulling this over in my head lately and thought I'd post and see what other guys are thinking. Is Canadian subject matter that much of a niche market? Year after year, we have these great looking demo Hornets come out of the paint shop and at one point in time, you could almost expect to see a decal sheet. Nowadays, not so much. While I realize that such a sheet is a bit of an undertaking, both time and finance wise, why not still put out a decal sheet, even if it is a limited edition? There are five recent Demo Hornet schemes that are fantastic, but haven't been done in scale, because no decals are available. Besides the demo Hornets, there are other anniversary schemes that could be done in decal form. Every Hornet squadron had anniversary tail art in 2016 and I'd love to see a decal sheet for those jets. As well, I think there are still some CF-5 subjects that could be done too, in addition to CT-133 markings, both operational and anniversary schemes. I also realize that between decal manufacturers, there could possibly be some overlap of subject matter, but that shouldn't stop an outfit from doing their own sheet of something. Maybe I'm preaching to the choir or barking up the wrong tree, but it would be nice to see some newer, Canadian themed decal sheets on the market. Does anyone else feel this way or am I way out in left field here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) No, your right. Leading Edge appears to be gone. Belcher Bits has not had anything new in ages. Think its been about a full year for Canuck. Canmilair is still doing some new stuff in ALPS decals but nothing new in the standard system. I would very much like to do the last few demo Hornets. Or anything for 401 squadron. Entire new squadron exists, even a demo bird but decals never happened. Or the two seater 433 that flew over the Grey cup game. Edited March 26, 2017 by phantom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slo-pine Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I wouldn't say Belcher Bits has been dormant. He's taken care of us with the Northstar conversion, C-45, Tracker and Cormorant in the last few years. Canuck definitely has gone dark in the last year. He was on a roll with many great subjects and potential for many more. Too bad as the quality of the art work and decals is excellent. Canmilair I can't take serious. Plenty of interesting subject matter but prices are to the extreme even compared with other alps printed decals. And quality leaves something to be desired, but that could be just an alps issue. As for the hornets, I'd love to see a sheet of every Demo. Realistically I can understand why we probably won't. How many Canadian modellers are out there? And how many will build multiple hornets? Especially more than 2 or 3? Probably not many. To be profitable they'd have to sell a reasonable quantity in a reasonable amount of time. I'm guessing that hasn't happened or we'd have seen more by now. Personally I always thought that not having the decals available at the start of the airshow season hurt sales. Seeing the real aircraft and pics show up on the net would be a big motivator to pick a set up. On a positive note the Caracal Hawk sheet is nice. Especially since the Leading edge sheet is long gone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KursadA Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I am always willing to feature Canadian subjects on new Caracal sheets. I can't promise to do every subject you may have in mind, but I am open to your ideas. Send your references to dynamic, financially sound businesses (that would be me), and you will see those decals made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yvesff Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 I would think it is definitely a niche market, and we should be thankful that Leading Edge and Canuck spoiled us over the years. Canuck is still around, but has other priorities right now, related to putting bread on the table... I am glad Caracal did the Hawk special scheme last year, Canuck was supposed to do it, but like I said above... I appreciate Caracal's willingness to come forward for us, so lets send him those references... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Yes I agree whole heartily that Canadian markings are a niche area. In fact you could probably say that about all of the other nations like Norway, Spain, Holland etc. and we are only talking country markings and not the special schemes here. That is why decal producers in those countries have produced decals for their nation's air forces since then they might actually have a chance of markings being produced. This is all my personal opinion but I think I am right. As for RCAF CF-18 special markings, I think most modellers will be hard pressed to continue to build the same thing over and over (well except Phantom of course ) other than a change of tail markings. I also believe that the markings that are produced for the real aircraft automatically generate a love-hate relationship with the modelling crowd in that some people hate it and others love it. Do you guys remember that short lived scheme which was overall white, yellow and red? I think I've heard it called the Ronald McDonald's scheme. Well I hated it, just too gaudy for my taste. I am really thankful that producers like Caracal has stepped up and provided markings for those smaller air forces that would probably not get done, Most appreciative of his efforts and I show my appreciation by buying his sheets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 10 hours ago, KursadA said: I am always willing to feature Canadian subjects on new Caracal sheets. I can't promise to do every subject you may have in mind, but I am open to your ideas. Send your references to dynamic, financially sound businesses (that would be me), and you will see those decals made. I'd definitely be a loyal buyer of your products. I still have enough contacts in the Airforce to help with the material. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slo-pine Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 10 hours ago, KursadA said: I am always willing to feature Canadian subjects on new Caracal sheets. I can't promise to do every subject you may have in mind, but I am open to your ideas. Send your references to dynamic, financially sound businesses (that would be me), and you will see those decals made. So other than the hornets what decals would everyone like to see? What hasn't been done recently? Also, what happened to flightdecs Aurora sheet? did it ever get released? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin K Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share Posted March 27, 2017 17 minutes ago, Slo-pine said: So other than the hornets what decals would everyone like to see? What hasn't been done recently? Also, what happened to flightdecs Aurora sheet? did it ever get released? Well, I'd like to see some RCAF T-33s, we're talking back to the 1960's or earlier. I'd love to do a bunch of natural metal T-Birds. I think an extensive sheet for the CF-5A/D in the ghost scheme could be done, plus a CF-5A/D aggressor sheet. More natural metal RCAF Sabres would be cool, and maybe even RCAF stuff from WW2 (Spits, Hurricanes, Lancs, etc.). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Slo-pine said: So other than the hornets what decals would everyone like to see? What hasn't been done recently? Also, what happened to flightdecs Aurora sheet? did it ever get released? Well I helped Joe at Flightdecs with the info for the CP-140 sheet and I do know it got printed. I think Joe has about 300 of the sheets but the biggest problem was the instructions. I even got a sheet and sent it on to Steve here at ARC for a review and that was years ago. There was also a small add on to the Aurora sheet as somehow a couple of items got missed. A friend of mine in the local IPMS club has the sheet and he is currently working on the kit. I have been trying to reach Joe for awhile now but without success. Not sure what is happening but I do know he lost his sister and he was suffering a bit with some health issues. I will keep trying to reach him and see what is up. Hey at least his site is still going so that is a good sign I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slo-pine Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Colin K said: Well, I'd like to see some RCAF T-33s, we're talking back to the 1960's or earlier. I'd love to do a bunch of natural metal T-Birds. I think an extensive sheet for the CF-5A/D in the ghost scheme could be done, plus a CF-5A/D aggressor sheet. More natural metal RCAF Sabres would be cool, and maybe even RCAF stuff from WW2 (Spits, Hurricanes, Lancs, etc.). Have you seen the belcher T-33 and F-5 sheets? they look good online. Tons of schemes on both. Thinking about ordered them myself Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slo-pine Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 16 minutes ago, skyhawk174 said: Well I helped Joe at Flightdecs with the info for the CP-140 sheet and I do know it got printed. I think Joe has about 300 of the sheets but the biggest problem was the instructions. I even got a sheet and sent it on to Steve here at ARC for a review and that was years ago. There was also a small add on to the Aurora sheet as somehow a couple of items got missed. A friend of mine in the local IPMS club has the sheet and he is currently working on the kit. I have been trying to reach Joe for awhile now but without success. Not sure what is happening but I do know he lost his sister and he was suffering a bit with some health issues. I will keep trying to reach him and see what is up. Hey at least his site is still going so that is a good sign I think. Fingers crossed we'll see them someday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Ok here are some quick shots of some CF-18 tails. I would think these would tax any decal artist to replicate, that 410 Sqn one especially. CF-18 410 Sqn tail art by Chris Aleong CF-18 409 Sqn tail art Strbd by Chris Aleong CF-18 401 Sqn tail art Strbd by Chris Aleong CF-18 401 Sqn tail art Port by Chris Aleong Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin K Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 Anything is possible with the right tools. Even a sheet with just these tail markings would be simple to do as the rest of the markings on the jet are all standard, and more than a few modellers probably have more than one sheet of standard CF-18 markings in their stash. As well, a whole decal to cover the tail wouldn't really be needed, just the major graphics and the modeller would just have to paint one or two colours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seafuryfb Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I was at the ipms Hamilton contest last Saturday, it was an impromptu visit. Met David Winter there and he had a table at swap meet side . A few things have changed since Leading Edge did color birds, David Winter said he had to get licensing for BofB CF18 in order to produce the decals. He said the Jim Beliveau no longer has any interest in helping decal companies for decals of toy airplanes. Since the Leading Edge fiasco of the Tiger Cf18 were he was give a cease and desist order the there will be less likely we will see more color birds Cf18 decals. BK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bikerider Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Is David Winter Canuck Models? A couple of months ago on Facebook I asked him about this year's 2017 CF-18 Demo Jet, if he was going to be making decals for that. His response left me with the impression that he wasn't really aware of what this year's paint scheme was, nevermind preparing decals for it. Quite contrary to the Battle of Britain plane when there was lots of prep work being done prior to the plane even flying. Maybe this explanation from below explains why.... disappointing. 33 minutes ago, seafuryfb said: I was at the ipms Hamilton contest last Saturday, it was an impromptu visit. Met David Winter there and he had a table at swap meet side . A few things have changed since Leading Edge did color birds, David Winter said he had to get licensing for BofB CF18 in order to produce the decals. He said the Jim Beliveau no longer has any interest in helping decal companies for decals of toy airplanes. Since the Leading Edge fiasco of the Tiger Cf18 were he was give a cease and desist order the there will be less likely we will see more color birds Cf18 decals. BK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Emvar Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Reality is that his costs are going up.... he needs to be able to sell a significant amount to make it worth his while. The licence issue has been resolved and from what David has told me, it all covers the colour birds. I have asked him him if he could add an addendum to the standard Symmetrical Hornet sheet for the original tiger CF-18 188769 and he has said that the cost would make the sheet less profitable. So reality is that demo schemes don't sell too well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin K Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 9 hours ago, seafuryfb said: I was at the ipms Hamilton contest last Saturday, it was an impromptu visit. Met David Winter there and he had a table at swap meet side . A few things have changed since Leading Edge did color birds, David Winter said he had to get licensing for BofB CF18 in order to produce the decals. He said the Jim Beliveau no longer has any interest in helping decal companies for decals of toy airplanes. Since the Leading Edge fiasco of the Tiger Cf18 were he was give a cease and desist order the there will be less likely we will see more color birds Cf18 decals. BK According to a post a while back, David mentioned that his licensing agreement covered the Demo Hornet schemes as well, so he is free to do them. As far as Jim goes, there are plenty of other sources of reference materials available as more than enough modellers take photos of the demo aircraft each season. I will be seeing the new demo jet in April, out in Comox. I'll be shooting a walk around, if I have enough time during my visit with the demo team. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raymond Chung Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Hi everybody, Don't worry about the RCAF option, we will have a RCAF demo series soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 ?????? Yeah, THAT requires more details. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raymond Chung Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Once we confirmed the detail, we will let you know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seafuryfb Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 The aswer in yes David Winter is the man behind Canuck decals, Dave Koss is the man behind Leading Edge decals. And my memory these days gets the better of me about the licensing agreements and David did mention it. As far as color birds go as in decal sales it depended on the color scheme of which one sold more , that's what I remember from when Rick sold them at Uncle Bill's Hobby. They also would sell better at the time the demo is flying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Raymond Chung said: Hi everybody, Don't worry about the RCAF option, we will have a RCAF demo series soon. Awesome! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Colin K Posted March 31, 2017 Author Share Posted March 31, 2017 9 hours ago, Raymond Chung said: Hi everybody, Don't worry about the RCAF option, we will have a RCAF demo series soon. Raymond....you have my attention! Hopefully, some of the more recent demos will be done. If you are looking for references, let me know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raymond Chung Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Colin yes 2016, 2017 please send me info Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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