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Hi,

its a good start on the seats, i do agree about the thickness... a bit thick.  Did u do a template on the seats first.? make sure you always use a new blade everytime you cut since they may get dull pretty fast. from looking at your seat and the side walls, make sure you don't have a gap when gluing. From what i see from your first try on scratch building you have a natural ability. 

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9 minutes ago, Rotorman said:

Hi,

its a good start on the seats, i do agree about the thickness... a bit thick.  Did u do a template on the seats first.? make sure you always use a new blade everytime you cut since they may get dull pretty fast. from looking at your seat and the side walls, make sure you don't have a gap when gluing. From what i see from your first try on scratch building you have a natural ability. 

 

Thanks!  As far as the template was concerned, I would work on each individual piece until I thought it "looked" right, then would cut the other pieces using that as a template.  I think my biggest problem is I got too impatient yesterday and instead of waiting to get the proper tools, i.e a good straight-edge and measuring tools, I would use what I had on hand and I think it got a little sloppy on the straight cuts.  I found a wide chisel blade worked best and left the cleanest edge, instead of "slicing" with a knife.  I was going to try to use some putty to fill in the gaps and see if that cleans them up a little bit.  The other thing I want to try is when I make the "pads", for lack of a better term.  They may cover the gaps and make them unnoticeable on the final product.  If not, then I am gonna try again.  When you make a template, do you make it out of another piece of styrene?   

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I do make  templates with another piece of styrene, i want to make sure I have a exact match everytime. This is how I would have approached  your seat, i hope this help you. I would measure the size of the seat and the back together then do a small slice in between the seat and the back and fold at you cut, I would then make 2 side walls then glue those two pieces to your seat parts...only 3 pieces that and a stronger hold. With left over measurements from the seat/back you can start working on the pads for the seats. good luck.

oliver

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4 minutes ago, Rotorman said:

I do make  templates with another piece of styrene, i want to make sure I have a exact match everytime. This is how I would have approached  your seat, i hope this help you. I would measure the size of the seat and the back together then do a small slice in between the seat and the back and fold at you cut, I would then make 2 side walls then glue those two pieces to your seat parts...only 3 pieces that and a stronger hold. With left over measurements from the seat/back you can start working on the pads for the seats. good luck.

oliver

 

Thanks Oliver!  That does help a lot.  The more I look at what I have done, the more I think I want to try again.  It took me awhile to get to that point, but I think I could do better....and more precise.  Do you have any suggestions on cutting the slots for the seat belts?  The way I handled it was using a micro drill to drill two holes at the far ends of the slot, the cutting the middle out with a knife.  It actually worked pretty well, but was just wondering if you, or anyone else, had other ideas that I could try.

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heres what I do. Draw a start line and a finish line as well as a guide line  ...kind of looks line a stretched letter H. Drill pilot holes along your guide line then cut the excess styrene, then shape with micro files to the opening size and shape you need.  proceed slowly.

oliver

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6 hours ago, Rotorman said:

heres what I do. Draw a start line and a finish line as well as a guide line  ...kind of looks line a stretched letter H. Drill pilot holes along your guide line then cut the excess styrene, then shape with micro files to the opening size and shape you need.  proceed slowly.

oliver

 

That makes sense. I will try that on my next rendition.  Thanks for the tips!   

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11 hours ago, Rotorman said:

heres what I do. Draw a start line and a finish line as well as a guide line  ...kind of looks line a stretched letter H. Drill pilot holes along your guide line then cut the excess styrene, then shape with micro files to the opening size and shape you need.  proceed slowly.

oliver

 

Oliver, I was just over at your thread on the MH60S and I am amazed at the level of detail you put into everything.  While I am not nearly at your level, I hope to pick up some tips from you.  It looks like I am going to scratchbuild my seats from the ground up, and I saw what you did with yours.  20141231_161213_zps78a97681.jpg

 

On those pieces you have hanging between the main posts, did you use solid rod and trim the indentations near the top and bottom?  I want to do something very similar on the main posts of my seats.  

Image may contain: one or more people

 

I was thinking of using tubing that would slide over the rod, but looking at the dimensions of the actual styrene pieces, I think the tubing would be way out of scale.  The smallest styrene tube I found is almost 3/32" in diameter, equaling almost 3" at full scale.  That obviously won't work.  

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Tom,

First, Never hesitate to ask about tips, I am more than happy to share anything i have done in the past. Are you talking about the back sliding rods? I would use the same rods and wrap Tamiya yellow tape to the top of the rod to simulate that little ridge. make sure you leave a sliver of styrene at the top to be able to glue to the seat attachment.

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1 hour ago, Rotorman said:

Tom,

First, Never hesitate to ask about tips, I am more than happy to share anything i have done in the past. Are you talking about the back sliding rods? I would use the same rods and wrap Tamiya yellow tape to the top of the rod to simulate that little ridge. make sure you leave a sliver of styrene at the top to be able to glue to the seat attachment.

 

The ah-ha moment just freakin' hit me!  Here I was making it way more difficult than I needed to. I was trying to figure out how to drill out the center of a smaller rod or something like that, and you teach me to wrap tape on it!!!   Hahaha!  Thank you for that tip!   I already knew I had much to learn, but I am realizing that I don't even know what I don't know!   

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Does anyone know a way to "unglue" something?  In the scratchbuild of my seat, I got a piece misplaced.  I can rebuild it, but want to see if I can fix it first.  I used tamiya extra thin.  Will putting more on soften it and allow me to move it. I need to move the foreground post back a little bit toward the end of the rail.   See picture below:  

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Edited by JesusNut
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On 4/7/2017 at 0:02 PM, Rotorman said:

Tom,

First, Never hesitate to ask about tips, I am more than happy to share anything i have done in the past. Are you talking about the back sliding rods? I would use the same rods and wrap Tamiya yellow tape to the top of the rod to simulate that little ridge. make sure you leave a sliver of styrene at the top to be able to glue to the seat attachment.

 

Oliver, do you have a go-to glue you like to use?  I have been using the Tamiya Extra-Thin, and it seems to want to run everywhere.  When I am trying to glue small pieces to other pieces, everything wants to slip and slide everywhere.  I want to try something else, but not sure where to begin.  I guess CA glue would work, but not sure what brand would be best for styrene.  

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I do use Tamiya extra thin glue as well.. been for years. how much glue are you putting on your parts? Are you using the little brush applicator.?  As far as CA i use two types, a thin and slow cure but mostly slow cure.  I don't have a brand that i use, i get the one made by my model store, want me to get it for you?  I usually tape my parts in place whenever I can while using super glue. Can u post photos of what you are having issues with gluing.

 

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2 hours ago, Rotorman said:

I do use Tamiya extra thin glue as well.. been for years. how much glue are you putting on your parts? Are you using the little brush applicator.?  As far as CA i use two types, a thin and slow cure but mostly slow cure.  I don't have a brand that i use, i get the one made by my model store, want me to get it for you?  I usually tape my parts in place whenever I can while using super glue. Can u post photos of what you are having issues with gluing.

 

 

I will try to get some pictures tonight.  I am still working on the seats, but have started over again.  I have some of the structure of the seat frames done.  With trial and error, I have found that it helps some to make sure I wipe the applicator off on the side of the bottle mouth to try to get as much excess off as possible.  I then dab the seam where the two pieces mate.  I probably also need to find some better tools to work with the small pieces.  I have been using some standard tweezers to hold the parts and they seem to be a little bulky.  The styrene seems to stick to them pretty bad, especially after the glue is applied.  It is probably as much my technique as anything.  Lots of practice!  

 

EDIT: And then, after going back and re-reading your answer, I saw the part about taping the parts together.  I guess my question is for things like the bolt/nut heads that you add to parts.   Do you use a double sided tape to keep those in place and be able to see them while you are placing them?

Edited by JesusNut
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2 minutes ago, Rotorman said:

Glue rivets like this.

 

 

That makes sense.  Every time I ask a question and get an answer, I feel like I need to face-palm myself!  The answers are so obvious sometimes.  Thanks again for taking the time to teach.  I have been working my way through your Huey build and to say I am impressed would be a major understatement.  I realize I do not have the patience to go to the level you have done in the two builds I have seen so far, but I also know I can learn much from you and can employ a few techniques to make the kits I build a little more realistic and a little less toy-like.  

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19 hours ago, Rotorman said:

I do use Tamiya extra thin glue as well.. been for years. how much glue are you putting on your parts? Are you using the little brush applicator.?  As far as CA i use two types, a thin and slow cure but mostly slow cure.  I don't have a brand that i use, i get the one made by my model store, want me to get it for you?  I usually tape my parts in place whenever I can while using super glue. Can u post photos of what you are having issues with gluing.

 

 

Here are a couple pictures of one of the seat posts and side armor that I have worked on.  As you can tell, I have some cleanup to do, especially on the side armor.  I got glue everywhere and I am sure it is my technique.  I tried to keep the amount of glue to a minimum, but it seemed to run everywhere.  I taped the large piece down to my glass, but still had trouble positioning the small thin pieces of styrene that make up the rubber padding on the edge.  I did not cut the individual pieces to length and tried to control them as one long strip and I think that is where I went wrong.  More practice! The black on the side armor is where I tried to use a sharpie to outline my template and it ran on the styrene.  I ran it over a coarse sanding board to try to remove some of it before I started adding the edging, but it was an extra practice piece so I did not spend a whole lot of time on it.

 

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And my second effort of adding the trim to the edge of the seat side.  Much better on the glue, but it still looks rough.  It's amazing how I can see so much more in the photograph than I can with my old, tired eyes!  The edges look much rougher than I thought they were.  And please forgive my photography skills.  I took these with a phone camera.  I will try to clean it up a little bit after work tonight, if I am not too mentally tired.  But for now, its time to go answer some 911 calls and try to save some lives.

 

EDIT:  As I thought about it on the way to work this morning, I think I realized the importance of using fresh blades.  Those cuts look rough to me.  Time to order some #11's.

 

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Edited by JesusNut
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3 hours ago, crushkill said:

Those seats are looking good man.  You're a braver man than me scratch building!

 

Thanks.  I just didn't think the kit seats looked very good.  I guess I could have gotten resin seats for it, but I wanted to try my hand at scratch building.  I realize I have a lot to learn, but after watching Oliver and his scratch builds, I realize it can be done.  Not to his level for awhile, or probably ever, but maybe I can make them passable.

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I need help from any Vietnam Huey drivers out there.  While scratchbuilding my seats, I came across a couple versions of how the armor attaches to the seat and I would like to know which one is more accurate.

 

On this seat, the armor on the right hand side as we are looking at it (towards the center console), the armor is trapezoidal and is only attached by the bracket at the top.

Image may contain: people sitting

 

In this drawing, the armor is attached all the way down and appears to be rectangular.

 

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In this photo, the armor appears to also be rectangular, but is attached only by the bracket at the top.

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And then on this seat, it appears to be rectangular again, and attached all the way down.  Part of my confusion is that the two black seats I know are from later birds that are painted black for the NVG.  

Image may contain: people sitting

 

Ray, if you have any pictures of this in your collection, would you let me know which one you think it might be.  And below are my latest reprsentations of the seats, minus that armor I am asking about.  I still need to add "fabric" to the seat back and seat and of course paint them.  And build the seat supports and anchors.  For the fabric, I have experimented with painting a couple different brands of tape and think the blue painters tape came out the best.  I plan to experiment on a couple more just to make sure I like that one the best.  

 

No automatic alt text available.

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Tom,

  The pictures you posted were  mostly posted by me originally.  The top pic of the seats on PSP was taken by Robert Brakenhoff of the 174th AHC in 1970.  The one at the bottom shows a armored seat after refurbishment for install in Huey IIs at bell Ozark.  The right seat has the trapazoidal angled plate and the left has the rectangular plate attached all along it's length.  The one photo that isn't one I posted shows what i belive is a UK restoration bird and it has a rectangular plate where the trapazoidal one should be.  If you lok at the parts diagram you posted you will see that both the rectangular and trapazoidal plates are illustrated, it's just that the trapezoidal plate is illustrated below the left seat shown in the digram.  HTH.

    Ray

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4 hours ago, rotorwash said:

Tom,

  The pictures you posted were  mostly posted by me originally.  The top pic of the seats on PSP was taken by Robert Brakenhoff of the 174th AHC in 1970.  The one at the bottom shows a armored seat after refurbishment for install in Huey IIs at bell Ozark.  The right seat has the trapazoidal angled plate and the left has the rectangular plate attached all along it's length.  The one photo that isn't one I posted shows what i belive is a UK restoration bird and it has a rectangular plate where the trapazoidal one should be.  If you lok at the parts diagram you posted you will see that both the rectangular and trapazoidal plates are illustrated, it's just that the trapezoidal plate is illustrated below the left seat shown in the digram.  HTH.

    Ray

 

Thanks Ray!  This is starting to make more sense now.  I had forgotten that you had posted those pictures, I think on another forum.  I like to try to give credit where credit is due.  Now that I think about it, most of the pictures I have probably came from you.  I have combed several forums and saved photos that I think might be of use to me in the future.  I just need to be more careful in documenting where I got them and the photographer so I can give them credit.  Do you know why one was trapezoidal and the other was rectangular?  I know the right seat is usually the PIC, but Dad also told me that his unit's AC's all flew from the left seat.  He told me why, but I do not remember off the top of my head.  Now that I think about it, my guess for the difference is because of where the collective is.  Maybe the rectangular armor would cause some movement restriction on the left arm in moving the collective.  Just a guess on my part, but it kinda makes sense.  

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2 hours ago, salvador001 said:

Oh man, those seats are looking mighty fine. 

 

Rod.

 

Thanks Rod!  I am chomping at the bit to put some paint on them to see how they turn out, but I don't want to hurry myself and end up ruining a nice scratchbuilt piece.  This scatchbuilding stuff is time consuming!  But worth it!

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