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CH-47A Operations in Vietnam


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I know Chinooks were used as transports in vietnam and flew along side hueys doing the same, I'm wondering how common was this? Would Chinooks fly into hot areas like the Hueys while doing troop transport? When it's doing cargo transport would a crew totally avoid areas that are in contact? Don't want drop your load but if supplies or equipment is needed, maybe it's worth the risk?

 

 

Tim

Edited by HUEYHOG
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I was thinking kinda that same thing. Maybe dropping troops some what close to the action?

 

I was hoping to use my 1/35 CH-47A as game piece and a pretty big game piece it will be lol. The game board will be big also 16' x 8'.  I'm  making my own rules and Flying into a hot lz with a big helo, just looks wrong to me.

 

Tim

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  • 4 weeks later...

DO a web search for 228 AHC and you will find info on "Guns A Go Go". the inception of the 47 gunship in Viet Nam. i served 6 years with this unit.

Good Luck and Enjoy!!

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Todd,

  Thnaks for your service, sir.  Did you serve in Vietnam?  Were you crew on a Go Go bird?  

  There were 4 ACH-47As that served with Guns A Go Go: Stump Jumper, Birth Control, Cost of living and Easy Money.  Easy Money was the only one to survive Vietnam and is now on display at Redstone Arsenal.  The Guns A Go Go moniker was passed down to the MH-47s used by the 160th SOAR.

   Ray

Edited by rotorwash
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Here are a few images of 'Easy Money' I took on Redstone when I was working the CH-47J project with PEO Aviation. I have a full walk-around. Last photograph of the ACH-47A is an official 1st CAV 8x10 taken at Ah Khe, RVN. All the images are mine and from my collection.

 

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Also adding a couple showing a troop insertion via ladders from a CH-47A. This was not unheard of but not standard fare either. Most of the Hookers in Vietnam were there for heavy lift. The missions run in A-Stan are outside of what was typical in Vietnam and when they do get shot down obviously the loss of life is far greater.

 

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Chinooks were primarily used as a heavy lifting device. There was two distinct variations. One with a 12,000 lb. lift capacity (most common), and a heavy lift version. Also heat and humidity had a lot to do with the job on hand. Arty units lived and died by the Chinook. Yet I've seen "hatchet teams " roll in via chinook, but also a klick out.  MIKE Forces used them a lot to assemble, and then board slicks with gunships all over the place. So I guess you could say they did take them into harms way.

 

I went down in one, and limped to an LZ in another. I hated them! Big old target for three 51's in a cross fire while it plodded thru a valley.  Can still hear those 51's cutting thru all that tin they're made out of.  Still you had to have them every day. Being used as a gunship makes one think somebody had too much free time on their hands. Everyone I ever saw was unarmed but one. They got tired of being shot at out our way, and put an M2 on the rear ramp. By the time he was shooting, the bad guys were headed to the beach for a swim!  The real issue was the lack of gunships. Not Cobras, but plain jane gunships.

 

One thing the Chinook had over the slicks and gunships was range. Not a big deal when your making strikes up and down the coast, but they set you down on the Laotian border and things get dark. That's a forty minute flight from Chu Lai or DaNang, Some slicks couldn't get back home without a refuel stop! A Chinook could do it easily. It really got bad up near the Ashau, and points further north. You best not be shot up bad, cause you won't see the next sunrise.

gary   

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On 5/19/2017 at 11:24 PM, rotorwash said:

Todd,

  Thnaks for your service, sir.  Did you serve in Vietnam?  Were you crew on a Go Go bird?  

  There were 4 ACH-47As that served with Guns A Go Go: Stump Jumper, Birth Control, Cost of living and Easy Money.  Easy Money was the only one to survive Vietnam and is now on display at Redstone Arsenal.  The Guns A Go Go moniker was passed down to the MH-47s used by the 160th SOAR.

   Ray

No Viet Nam was b4 my time. Did (3) tours in Iraq. Crewed Huey, OH-58D, Apache AH-64 Longbow

did a 150pic shoot of Easy Money when I was stationed in Huntsville w/ 20th SF

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8 hours ago, snake36bravo said:

 

And one of the few that can make altitude in the badlands of certain countries.

I always figured it was a Jolly Green being the fastest. Learned something! The Chinook could fly much higher than a slick, but the problem again was the pilots wanting to fly them like a slick. Where they got the idea that flying the map of the earth was the ticket is flat nuts. Yet when they got back to the rear, they'd increase altitude. A 51 cal makes short work out of a Chinook, and a 37mm is usually fatal.

gary

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Nope. It's the Chinook. Even the 160th would rather take a Hook into most areas they operate in than a Hawk. Faster, more payload, and more armament/armor. And the rotor footprint is actually "only" 15-20 more feet in comparison to a Black Hawk.(what's 20 feet among friends, right? is what the 4th Bat's J2 told me when I was talking to him about it) When the 4th Battalion did a formation fly with a B-25, MH-60M and a T-6 a few years ago, the MH-47G actually had to hold back to keep in formation.

 

Aaron  

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The US Army CH-47 and the USMC CH-53 have the same cruise speed and top speed.(184/196MPH) But the current CH-53K will become the fastest now. It is hard to conceive that a Helo that large can fly that fast but,it's true.Going in a straight line is one thing ...but consider it's maneuvering? The CH-53 can barrel roll also. The CH-47 can not. The New 53 is a BUS on STEROIDS.

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9 hours ago, strikeeagle801 said:

Nope. It's the Chinook. Even the 160th would rather take a Hook into most areas they operate in than a Hawk. Faster, more payload, and more armament/armor. And the rotor footprint is actually "only" 15-20 more feet in comparison to a Black Hawk.(what's 20 feet among friends, right? is what the 4th Bat's J2 told me when I was talking to him about it) When the 4th Battalion did a formation fly with a B-25, MH-60M and a T-6 a few years ago, the MH-47G actually had to hold back to keep in formation.

 

Aaron  

With regard to flying them in combat, always heard that the -47 was a lot more fragile than a Blackhawk.   I know that when I was in, most of the old hands were terrified of flying in Chinooks, felt they were an accident waiting to happen. 

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28 minutes ago, Todd said:

The New 53 is a BUS on STEROIDS.

For $85 million each (more than an F-35), it better be. For that price, it better come equipped with lay flat sleeper seats so the grunts can travel business class!

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6 hours ago, 11bee said:

For $85 million each (more than an F-35), it better be. For that price, it better come equipped with lay flat sleeper seats so the grunts can travel business class!

I gotta jump on you for this comment!!! I road a lot of choppers of just about every size and shape (even the bubble). It's main job was to get from point A to point B safely. Of course that doesn't always happen, but still the idea. The more ruggedly built an airframe; the better the folks in side's chances of survival. I don't care if it cost $10K or $20 million. Your first priority is too get the folks there in one piece. Yes I'd be whining about the price tag if it came out of my wallet, but what is a 19 year old kid's life worth?

 

Once a week my First Sargent would hand over a bottle of hooch to each Chinook pilot for just coming out there. He'd personally thank Medevac crews for getting one of his kids back to Chu Lai (312th Medvac hospital) alive. You'd see their choppers with patches all over them, but they still flew well. Guess it was kind of a recycling event. We used slicks for insertions and Medevacs, but have seen them use Chinooks more than once. That's a bad thing when you gotta go that far. Yet they got back, and nobody ever cried about the cost involved. You just thanked God above you made it out of that LZ in one piece.

gary

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11 hours ago, 11bee said:

With regard to flying them in combat, always heard that the -47 was a lot more fragile than a Blackhawk.   I know that when I was in, most of the old hands were terrified of flying in Chinooks, felt they were an accident waiting to happen. 

I think they have a better reputation in combat than they used to. The oldest flying airframe in the the US Army is a CH-47A turned D, that has been deployed twice to Iraq and once to Afghanistan, and still working hard with the Washington Army National Guard. Plus, the G's, and especially the new-build F's, have better build techniques and more armor than the earlier models. Don't  forget the two M134's and M240's in the G's that help keep threats away from them in the first place...I think they do just fine in combat now. 

 

http://www.airfighters.com/photo/170886/M/USA-Army/Boeing-Vertol-CH-47D-Chinook/91-0261/

 

Aaron 

Edited by strikeeagle801
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Just curious as to why the regular Army doesn't use the exhaust cans on the CH-47's like that's on the MH-47G's?

It seems to me the regular army would want the exhaust protection for their helos as well.

A lot of new or survival protection aides for US Army helos comes down from the testing on 160th SOAR birds.

 

Tim

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In answer to your original question, the CH-47's were assigned to "Assault Support Helicopter Companies," while the Huey's were assigned to "Assault Helicopter Companies." The Huey's would make the initial assault to insert troops, then the Chinooks would lift in support equipment once the LZ was secured. I never saw Chinooks used in a combat assault. I flew H model Huey's in the Central Highlands with the 92nd AHC in 69 and 70.

 

Mig

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7 hours ago, Rob Mignard said:

In answer to your original question, the CH-47's were assigned to "Assault Support Helicopter Companies," while the Huey's were assigned to "Assault Helicopter Companies." The Huey's would make the initial assault to insert troops, then the Chinooks would lift in support equipment once the LZ was secured. I never saw Chinooks used in a combat assault. I flew H model Huey's in the Central Highlands with the 92nd AHC in 69 and 70.

 

Mig

ROB;

The ACH-47's that were in Nam were assigned to 228 AHC. The first of its kind it wasn't support company. My BN Commander in 88' was a pilot in Nam from that Unit as a LT, He & I had many conversations about the use of The Huey & Chinook in Nam, as we were both Crewman of the types.

Refer to my previous post on "Guns A Go Go"

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11 hours ago, Todd said:

ROB;

The ACH-47's that were in Nam were assigned to 228 AHC. The first of its kind it wasn't support company. My BN Commander in 88' was a pilot in Nam from that Unit as a LT, He & I had many conversations about the use of The Huey & Chinook in Nam, as we were both Crewman of the types.

Refer to my previous post on "Guns A Go Go"

 

Todd, the official unit page refers to itself as 228th ASHB Assault Support Helicopter Battalion. http://www.228th.org/

 

Per their unit history : 228th ASHB was the 1st Cavalry Division's Chinook Battalion. The Bn had three companies of CH-47 aircraft. Each company had 16 "Hooks." The Battalion Headquarters (HHC) had a UH-1D/H "Slick" and one OH-6A "Loach." Guns-A-Go-Go was originally the 53rd Aviation Detachment and became the 1st Aviation Detachment when it was assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division in November 1966

 

Originally designated 53rd Aviation Detachment, and nicknamed "Guns-A-Go-Go," these Chinook Gunships were deployed six months TDY to Vung Tau,Vietnam for testing. They were attached to and  supported by the 147th Avn. Co. (ASH) "Hillclimbers"

Around the first of December 1966, the unit was re-designated as 1st Aviation Detachment (Provisional), and attached to the 1st Cavalry Division's 228th ASHB at An Khe. 

 

The composition of an AHC- Assault Helicopter Company is different than an ASHB. Obviously Battalion level over that of Company level but beyond that an AHC typically had a HQ/VIP platoon, two lift platoons, and a gunship platoon.

 

Here are a few images I sold on from 1967 of the the 228th ASHB at An Khe and Phu Loi.

 

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And another typical mission profile for Chinooks in Vietnam. First photo from James Todd Pipesmoke recovery member

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I made this to try to identify the different names of the Pipesmoke recovery CH-47As from the unit.

 

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Sling out of a downed Shark gunship from the 174th AHC

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25th Infantry Division Troops and CH-47 Chinook, Operation Kole-Kole, Cu Chi '67

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Edited by snake36bravo
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For the table top gamers purpose a recovery mission of a downed Huey either lift or gunship would be better suited and that would've happened after the LZ was secure. Or bringing in resupply.

 

Unless your running a cross border OP mission where occasionally, not the norm for MACV-SOG, you can run a hatchet team on ladders via a CH-47A. Typically though a SOG mission either LRRP or otherwise would've been extracted by ladders from a Huey or the famous McQuire Rig.

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Here is one from my collection which shows practice with the Maquire Rig. No date on this photo but it's likely 69 or 70 after 1st Aviation Brigade put out the order to paint one blade top white.

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Marine Force Recon DID use ladders to insert via their CH-46. Change the composition for your table top to USMC and you'll be closer to what you want to achieve historically. And make your Hueys UH-1E

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Either way I've got a weird desire to build a Chinook now having never done that.

 

 

Edited by snake36bravo
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1 hour ago, snake36bravo said:

 

Todd, the official unit page refers to itself as 228th ASHB Assault Support Helicopter Battalion. http://www.228th.org/

 

Per their unit history : 228th ASHB was the 1st Cavalry Division's Chinook Battalion. The Bn had three companies of CH-47 aircraft. Each company had 16 "Hooks." The Battalion Headquarters (HHC) had a UH-1D/H "Slick" and one OH-6A "Loach." Guns-A-Go-Go was originally the 53rd Aviation Detachment and became the 1st Aviation Detachment when it was assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division in November 1966

 

Originally designated 53rd Aviation Detachment, and nicknamed "Guns-A-Go-Go," these Chinook Gunships were deployed six months TDY to Vung Tau,Vietnam for testing. They were attached to and  supported by the 147th Avn. Co. (ASH) "Hillclimbers"

Around the first of December 1966, the unit was re-designated as 1st Aviation Detachment (Provisional), and attached to the 1st Cavalry Division's 228th ASHB at An Khe. 

 

The composition of an AHC- Assault Helicopter Company is different than an ASHB. Obviously Battalion level over that of Company level but beyond that an AHC typically had a HQ/VIP platoon, two lift platoons, and a gunship platoon.

snake36bravo

You are correct ,it appears. I stand corrected.50 yrs before my time, and Members you were there, know better than those who were not.

I must say I find it ,interesting that even though the actual unit name and assignment changed,over the time span, the RIC still remained the same.

 

Quote

 

This was my Regt crest from 88-94 while w/ 2BN 228TH

 

 

228th.jpg

Edited by Todd
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