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The Scale Model Critique Group and ARC.


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First, there's an introductory video pinned to the top of the group that covers rules, expectations, and what's allowed. It is tagged "all new recruits must watch." We assume new members have watched, and that they understand the workings of the group. In addition the rules are written in the group description. 

 

That said, we deal with this complaining about sharing others work on a near daily basis and it's reached the point that instead of explaining it we usually just remove the people because 9 times out if 10 they are just trying to stir things up. 

 

For my part, I could have handled it better initially, yes. 

 

The idea that we ban people that don't agree with us is laughable and false. The only people we remove are ones that skirt the rules and make personal attacks. There are plenty of people I don't agree with. 

 

One of the biggest problems new members have is they see the fraternity type ribbing among regukars/friends and don't get it. There's not much I can do about that. 

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8 minutes ago, Robert Porter said:

Jim did not create a FB group to disparage Kitty Hawk, but Kitty Hawk actually did the reverse. Hence the attorneys being involved. Personally for a kit manufacturer to do something like that smacks of school yard bullying. If you disagree with Jim, fine then address your disagreement constructively and state your opinion. You have your right to an opinion just as much as he or I do. Again my point is making these attacks personal serves no ones interest. If you believe he has personally attacked someone and are upset by it address him directly, doing exactly what you criticize him for certainly is hypocritical in the extreme and serves no constructive end. 

 

To be clear Kitty Hawk isn't involved in this. I seriously doubt they would condone the behavior of that one group and then using their name if they knew about it. But I have no desire to press the issue. That group and it's individuals can say and do what they want. But a few people have taken it too far, and will find themselves being served, but again, Kitty Hawk has nothing to do with it. 

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36 minutes ago, Winnie said:

So you said "read the rules a$$hole, edit or get out."

 

May I point out that the rules are not available once you sign in. And are you going to do the same the next time someone posts someone else's build in the group and anybody cries fowl. Or will it be "take it down a$$hole" again?

 

Why don't you guys just post your own builds and leave it at that. If guys want to be critiqued, they'll ask for it.

 

You claim to be ridiculed, well perhaps you bring some of it on yourself when you swing the banhammer on anyone associated with anyone you don't like, Or anyone who dares go against you or your #2 Or #3. Or even say anything remotely too jocular that you guys didn't post first. 

 

I'll refrain from saying any more, but I thought I'd respond to what I consider bullying behavior.

 

Regards

Harold Sydness

Actually the rules are fully available, they are in the group description and quite clear as to what can and cannot be used as well as the rule not to make it personal. It does happen but in my experience the group admins step on it pretty quickly. 

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24 minutes ago, JimD said:

 

To be clear Kitty Hawk isn't involved in this. I seriously doubt they would condone the behavior of that one group and then using their name if they knew about it. But I have no desire to press the issue. That group and it's individuals can say and do what they want. But a few people have taken it too far, and will find themselves being served, but again, Kitty Hawk has nothing to do with it. 

Good to know, and I therefor withdraw my accusation against Kitty Hawk as being unfounded. However they should take steps to have their name removed from such a use. 

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59 minutes ago, JimD said:

... because I am fed up with the slander and attorneys are now involved.

:rofl:

But hold on while I call you all "assholes"...

 

I had the page on my FB for about a week before I realized it was a waste of time and space.

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4 minutes ago, 82Whitey51 said:

:rofl:

But hold on while I call you all "assholes"...

 

I had the page on my FB for about a week before I realized it was a waste of time and space.

 Well I wouldn't expect you to recognize the difference in one-off calling someone an not nice person and running multiple cyber bullying pages dedicated to defaming a single individual by name...

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the only builds that members of ARC forums have posted in hope (with the intention) of being critiqued are in the "Critique corner forum" ...all the rest should be considered as private conversations between ARC forum members... and if someone wanted to say something on what's being shown here, he only have to register here and post.

thank you.

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7 minutes ago, JimD said:

 Well I wouldn't expect you to recognize the difference in one-off calling someone an not nice person and running multiple cyber bullying pages dedicated to defaming a single individual by name...

Ya see why people think you're giant D-bag (not my words...) yet Jim?

 

Just build a model...

 

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No. It's not private. This is a public website and anything posted on it falls under the legal doctrine of fair use and can, and very well may, be used for educational purposes anywhere. 

 

ARC itself only allows critique in that subforum. It doesn't protect you anywhere else. Now, that said, I'm not likely going to allow it to happen on out pages anymore. 

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5 minutes ago, mingwin said:

the only builds that members of ARC forums have posted in hope (with the intention) of being critiqued are in the "Critique corner forum" ...all the rest should be considered as private conversations between ARC forum members... and if someone wanted to say something on what's being shown here, he only have to register here and post.

thank you.

Well put...

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Alf18 is a good guy i met personally once. i might have let someone else came up to the fence and spit at you otherwise.

but in the end, most people build plastic models as a hobby. hobby time is precious for some of us. a time when you can exit from all the fusses of the life. being torn by unknown stranger for the sole purpose of entertainment in those sacred times:angry:(educational purpose require an more academic tone to be considered as is...) that's why i find utterly sad to "critique" a build done by someone which have actually fly the real thing (alf18 is a former Canadian Hornet driver. you, nothing) without inquiring... (wise thing to avoid using ARC stuff to feed your beast)

on the other hand, i have absolutely no mercy for plastic model company... they are there to make money.... and some are taking it very easy... and btw, i've seen KH people involved in those muddy FB groups...

Edited by mingwin
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1 hour ago, JimD said:

Well I'm just going to ignore the ad hominem, obviously, beyond saying tread carefully because I am fed up with the slander and attorneys are now involved. 


giphy.gif

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That's the problem here. We do not rip models to shreds for entertainment. That's not what happens in the group and it's not allowed. That is the narrative of a dozen or so individuals with personal vendettes against myself and the other admins of some of the very people participating in this thread. 

 

Think of it this way. You join a book club, read a new book by an author and then meet withbyiur friends to discuss it. That's what happenes here. Generally, the builds shared by non members are if a very high quality, and usually the work of someone with an established name in the hobby. 

 

You don't teach literature students by studying Twilight fan fiction on 4chan. Same principle here. The problem is the build that was shared should not have been, and yes it was inappropriate and should have been removed sooner. It does make us and the group look bad. 

 

That said when someone like Chuck finishes an amazing build it likely will get shared because it can teach us something. But it won't be for mocking. Again, that doesn't happen. 

 

And I also must point out that it's rare that builds are shared like this anyway. Maybe 2 or 3 a month. 

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I'm sorry but you can't claim to be unfairly targeted by people and implicating KH when you called on your "faithful" to flood KH with trolling complaints because they posted a meme that hurt your feelings.  That group was formed to counter the crap as seen below:

 

 

Edited by Jonathan_Lotton
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4 minutes ago, JimD said:

That's the problem here. We do not rip models to shreds for entertainment. That's not what happens in the group and it's not allowed.

 

tumblr_mfu5s3v5nb1rknrf9o1_500.gif

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1 minute ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:

I'm sorry but you can't claim to be unfairly targeted by people and implicating KH when you called on your "faithful" to flood KH with trolling complaints because they posted a meme that hurt your feelings.  That group was formed to counter the crap as seen below:

 

 

 

There's a difference between criticizing a company and their products and business practices and groups like the one you're a member of and the other one which exist solely to mock me. There is a very real legal difference here between a corporation And an individual.  And this is something people are going to be finding out. 

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Jim, or whatever you're going by today, you do like to stir the pot and cause trouble. You change your screen name whenever you get banned from one forum. JimD, Professor Death, JDice, JimmyDel, and the list goes on. You're the reason FSM shut their forums down because you posted your "Manifesto". I too have seen the trolling that you continue to do until you get banned there and move on to the next one.

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So if you had to kick 9 or 10 guys out of the group or pointing this out, wouldn't it be easier then to just edit the effing rules??

 

It's hard to see that one is in the wrong, but in this case I believe you are the doerof the wrong not the receiver. You got called out, and that sucks.

 

You can't say the thread wasn't mocking the builder either. 

 

Harald Sydness

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3 minutes ago, Winnie said:

So if you had to kick 9 or 10 guys out of the group or pointing this out, wouldn't it be easier then to just edit the effing rules??

 

It's hard to see that one is in the wrong, but in this case I believe you are the doerof the wrong not the receiver. You got called out, and that sucks.

 

You can't say the thread wasn't mocking the builder either. 

 

Harald Sydness

 

The thread was mocking. That's why it was removed. And again, the rules don't need to be edited. They are in the video you clearly didn't watch as well as the group description. 

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18 minutes ago, JimD said:

No. It's not private. This is a public website and anything posted on it falls under the legal doctrine of fair use and can, and very well may, be used for educational purposes anywhere. 

 

ARC itself only allows critique in that subforum. It doesn't protect you anywhere else. Now, that said, I'm not likely going to allow it to happen on out pages anymore. 

 

Honestly. You and your "attorneys are involved" BS. "Legal doctrine of fair use..." Really? "Educational purposes"... Excuse me while I puke.

 

If you have the stones, why not change your ARC user ID to your full name - "Jim DiCesare"? Stand by what you say. 

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1 hour ago, Robert Porter said:

Jim did not create a FB group to disparage Kitty Hawk, but Kitty Hawk actually did the reverse. Hence the attorneys being involved. Personally for a kit manufacturer to do something like that smacks of school yard bullying. If you disagree with Jim, fine then address your disagreement constructively and state your opinion. You have your right to an opinion just as much as he or I do. Again my point is making these attacks personal serves no ones interest. If you believe he has personally attacked someone and are upset by it address him directly, doing exactly what you criticize him for certainly is hypocritical in the extreme and serves no constructive end. 

So....let me get this straight. You want us to be cordial polite and respectful. While Jim can be self righteous and arrogant in his responses to anything he feels necessary? I'm done talking about this. If I see Jim being, well Jim. I'm going to react in the same manner he himself reacts as per the usual.

 

Semper Fi

Dan

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All these responses prove is that you are the goof .everyone believes you are

Attorneys?

The refuge of a goof who has gone too far and cant shut his stupid mouth for fear of losing the attention you so desperately crave.

Go away and stop degrading the hobby and forums.

Now you can reply in the pompous and self-righteous manner you think fools people into thinking you have the integrity you crave and so obviously DO NOT have.

 

Edited by krow113
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1 hour ago, JimD said:

No. It's not private. This is a public website and anything posted on it falls under the legal doctrine of fair use and can, and very well may, be used for educational purposes anywhere. 

 

ARC itself only allows critique in that subforum. It doesn't protect you anywhere else. Now, that said, I'm not likely going to allow it to happen on out pages anymore. 

It may be legal, but that doesn't make it okay. 

 

Seriously, why can't you ask people before you critique their work? You're a member here now, so contacting an individual shouldn't be difficult.

 

And if they say no, then you leave it alone.

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My comment applies to your whole group. Either critique work within your own circle or get permission first. Whoever it is that brings in the work should just ask.

 

As was stated above: some people appreciate critique. 

 

I'm on the fence about it. Sometimes I appreciate it, but other times I'll post a model that I'm really proud of, only to have somebody nitpick a manufacturers inaccuracies or some a shade being off two microtones.

 

The worst is a trend I noticed on some Polish forums where those effers will backhandedly "complement" somebody's work as "nice sci-fi"

 

Then when called out for being an ahole they say it's critique.

 

Sadly those kinds of shenanigans is what passes for critique all over the web. 

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