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First time building a model using PE.  I have just come back to the hobby after a long (30+ years), so I know nothing about PE.  I actually don't know what I don't know.  I have watched a couple videos on Youtube, and they have helped, but I am not sure if what I am watching is helping or hindering.  So my questions are as follows:

 

1.  What videos or materials do you recommend to learn about working with PE?

2.  What glue(s) do you use to attach PE to both plastic and other PE?  The kit I am working on now, Accurate Miniatures P-51, Kit No. 3400, came with Eduard PE kit 48 134.  One of the steps has me attaching one piece of PE to another.  It also has me attaching what I believe is acetate to the back of the IP, so what would I also use to do that?

3.  Please advise any other tips you wish someone had told you when you were using PE for the first time.

 

Thanks to everyone in advance.  While I think adding all this PE will make for a better model, I am feeling a little overwhelmed right now and kinda wish for the good ol' days of smearing glue all over the plastic and praying like hell it'll all stick together in some semblance of an aircraft.

 

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I use CA, acrylic, or epoxy glue depending on the circumstances.


For a box or other shapes that hold themselves in alignment, I use thin CA as it will just wick along the edge joint. Be careful holding the part for gluing so it isn't glued to the work surface or holding tool.

 

For edge-joining one PE part to another, I use thicker CA to "tack" the parts together and then use thin CA along the joint as above. Epoxy can also be used for tacking.

 

For surface joints, especially PE to plastic or resin, skip the CA and use an acrylic glue, like Gator's Grip or Formula 560 Canopy Glue. Acrylic glues allow some amount of careful positioning, clean up with water, and, most importantly, are flexible. This last point will make sure the PE stays attached in spite of the different thermal expansion properties of PE and plastic or resin.

 

FWIW, a member of IPMSOC swears by Gator's Grip for edge joints because the flexibility enables the bond to survive the inevitable bumps a model may suffer while being handled. I suspect you need a glue fillet for this effect...

 

For folding PE, I heartily recommend the The Small Shop's "The Bug". Very well made and versatile! A rolling set can make forming flat PE into tubes relatively simple. The Small Shop has a rolling set that enables near-perfect tubes to be formed. For cutting PE from the fret, use a curved edge blade against a hard surface. Be careful your part doesn't fly away when you make that last cut!

Edited by dnl42
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I'm not sure p/e bits make a better model; they make a somewhat more filigree one with a bit of effort! :naughty:

 

I'm addicted to the stuff, and seem to ram masses of it into anything that will stand still long enough. First thing to note is that given the requirement to form some of it into 3D shapes, and given its insubstantial nature, unless you have a phenomenal natural dexterity you WILL trash a few bits at first. Don't let it put you off, just mark it down to experience.

 

Going on from what dnl42 says^ (which is all excellent), things I found out:

 

1. Folding/shaping bits: I never used specific tools, rollers, etc. A flat steel rule, fine tweezers, scalpel blades and handles plus a set of flat-blade jeweller's screwdrivers work fine for me. You may find otherwise; it's all a matter of preference. If you're rolling something down to a size, roll it around something a wee bit smaller -there is a bit of spring in brass that will pop it up a size after rolling.

 

2. Forget trying to position fiddly li'l bits (levers, etc.) with tweezers or forceps -it's like shaving with a lawn-mower. Get a toothpick and put a tiny (and I mean tiny!) blob of BluTak on one end. That will work much better, and for longer, than those cheesy 'pick & place' tools you see hawked around. I now have half a dozen of the things in a box to keep 'em dust free, with incrementally sized BluTak heads -the largest is the size of a pea, to accommodate everything from instrument panels down to the zip tab on the pilot's pants... :rolleyes:

 

3. Put the adhesive on the target surface, not the p/e part. For this, I find a #20 hypo needle or the white, pointy plastic toothpicks ideal for fine control. I always decant drops of cyano adhesive into the little blisters that medicines come packed in for easy transfer -yessir, pills, tablets and hypo needles: you and your pharmacist will be on great terms!

 

4. Installing the Naughty Stuff after painting everything else: sometimes, there is no other practical way. Gator's Grip is fine, but actually you can get cyano to work without wrecking everything if you have applied a clear varnish (Future/Klear or some clear acrylic finishes like Xtracrylic Satin). Obviously, you need to use very small amounts of adhesive...

 

5. Eduard's self-adhesive p/e stuff...isn't! Well, not in any serious way. Use a dab of glue as well.

 

6. Ready color-printed parts need sealing with Future/Klear before you even touch them. Ask me how I know...

 

Anything else you need to know, you will surely pick up along the way. Or you'll decide you'd rather stick that #20 hypo in your eye. Etched brass sets are divisive like that. If you learn to love them as I do, you're probably pretty much finished as a hooman bean...

 

Anyway, give it a go, and HTH.

 

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On 5/16/2017 at 0:57 PM, ChippyWho said:

I'm not sure p/e bits make a better model; they make a somewhat more filigree one with a bit of effort! :naughty:

 

I'm addicted to the stuff, and seem to ram masses of it into anything that will stand still long enough. First thing to note is that given the requirement to form some of it into 3D shapes, and given its insubstantial nature, unless you have a phenomenal natural dexterity you WILL trash a few bits at first. Don't let it put you off, just mark it down to experience.

 

Going on from what dnl42 says^ (which is all excellent), things I found out:

 

1. Folding/shaping bits: I never used specific tools, rollers, etc. A flat steel rule, fine tweezers, scalpel blades and handles plus a set of flat-blade jeweller's screwdrivers work fine for me. You may find otherwise; it's all a matter of preference. If you're rolling something down to a size, roll it around something a wee bit smaller -there is a bit of spring in brass that will pop it up a size after rolling.

 

2. Forget trying to position fiddly li'l bits (levers, etc.) with tweezers or forceps -it's like shaving with a lawn-mower. Get a toothpick and put a tiny (and I mean tiny!) blob of BluTak on one end. That will work much better, and for longer, than those cheesy 'pick & place' tools you see hawked around. I now have half a dozen of the things in a box to keep 'em dust free, with incrementally sized BluTak heads -the largest is the size of a pea, to accommodate everything from instrument panels down to the zip tab on the pilot's pants... :rolleyes:

 

3. Put the adhesive on the target surface, not the p/e part. For this, I find a #20 hypo needle or the white, pointy plastic toothpicks ideal for fine control. I always decant drops of cyano adhesive into the little blisters that medicines come packed in for easy transfer -yessir, pills, tablets and hypo needles: you and your pharmacist will be on great terms!

 

4. Installing the Naughty Stuff after painting everything else: sometimes, there is no other practical way. Gator's Grip is fine, but actually you can get cyano to work without wrecking everything if you have applied a clear varnish (Future/Klear or some clear acrylic finishes like Xtracrylic Satin). Obviously, you need to use very small amounts of adhesive...

 

5. Eduard's self-adhesive p/e stuff...isn't! Well, not in any serious way. Use a dab of glue as well.

 

6. Ready color-printed parts need sealing with Future/Klear before you even touch them. Ask me how I know...

 

Anything else you need to know, you will surely pick up along the way. Or you'll decide you'd rather stick that #20 hypo in your eye. Etched brass sets are divisive like that. If you learn to love them as I do, you're probably pretty much finished as a hooman bean...

 

Anyway, give it a go, and HTH.

 

 

Thanks Chippy!  I especially liked the tip to use the BLue-Tak.  Worked well.  Brings me to my next question.  P/e kit came with seat and, of course, seat belts.  Is it easier to paint the seat and seat belts separately, then try to attach them to the seat?  Or attach them and try to paint the buckles and seat belts after painting them all the base color of the seat, in my case interior green?

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I like to tack with tiny drops of epoxy , the run in thinned white glue to really get the parts joined.

Fit the seat belts to the seat before painting the seat to avoid scraping off the paint!

1/32 Gotha ,all of the pe is in place without c/a , I'm hating that stuff right now , going traditional with pva.

 

Edited by krow113
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17 minutes ago, krow113 said:

I like to tack with tiny drops of epoxy , the run in thinned white glue to really get the parts joined.

Fit the seat belts to the seat before painting the seat to avoid scraping off the paint!

1/32 Gotha ,all of the pe is in place without c/a , I'm hating that stuff right now , going traditional with pva.

IMG_2393_zps1xpxcudy.jpg

 

I guess I am ptting my inexperience on full display when I say "How the h%^# am I supposed to do that?".  I understand about not having a layer of paint between the glued surfaces, but while I may be able to paint the seat belts themselves, I am not sure how I would paint the buckles once they are attached to the seat.  Just to make sure I am understanding, attach the seat belts to the seat, paint the entire assembly the seat color, then go back and paint the seat belts and buckles their own colors.  And I must agree with dnl42's assessment above.  If you had not told me it was a model, you could have convinced me that this was a photo of the real thing!

 

8 minutes ago, dnl42 said:

That is completely awesome!!! Your painting skills are just a·maz·ing! :worship:

 

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To be clear , those are Eduard pre colored belts , and they did not peel or lose the paint in any way. I have had that happen too, not this time.

Procedure would be ; Fit the pre paints to the seat first and set aside . Then paint the seat with a good clear coat to finish and re-fit the belts . The Gotha seat above is decalled in leather as well so the sharp edges of the p/e were doing some damage. Once it is all solid , then color blend the whole assy together.

 

Big Tip:

Your belts must be shaped properly. The glue will not hold against the resistance of the metal. Bend them into place , past where they need to be , and they will spring back to where you want them. Practise with p/e fret to learn the materials properties.

And BELIEVE me when I tell you , you can get the belts to sit perfectly , all by themselves , by bending the metal & without glue. The glue is just to hold them lightly.

...& thanks for the comps!

 

Edited by krow113
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Ok.  Mine are not the pre-painted belts.  I will need to paint those afterwards.  This is a practice kit for me, so I will see what I can do with my limited skills.  OF course, that is the only way my skills will become not so limited!  Hahaha!

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Really the seat belt protocol is down to whatever you find easiest -for unprinted ones, I think I'd go for attachment then painting.

 

You probably know this already, but any detail painting is best achieved by doing the base color first, then sealing with Future/Klear when it is fully dry. The belts (or whatever) can then be painted with enamels and any stray paint can be wicked off with a pointy brush slightly (very slightly!) moistened with clean white spirit, ideally before it dries completely, without affecting the base paint. Also, if you have a super-pointy brush, where applicable you can carefully remove the enamel from the metal fittings, so you don't need to paint them. A bit of outlining/profiling with artist's oils or whatever, then final clear finish of your choice and you're done. *One thing I just learned the painful way* is NOT to use Revell enamel thinner instead of white spirit for clean-up -danged stuff chewed right through the enamel, the Klear barrier, the acrylic base color and looked like it was gonna take out half the bare resin underneath! :doh:

 

FWIW, I've pretty much given up on metal harnessware anyway -it is almost impossible to get it to drape convincingly, although I haven't yet sampled Eduard's newish thin steel items. I tend to go for resin seats with everything cast in, or attach narrow masking tape (jammydog.com has a selection of PVC or paper types) with superglue at the ends. Then I scalpel off the fasteners/adjusters from etched ones and stick 'em at strategic points! I can't replicate the lovely stitching on printed ones, but you can rarely see much of that on most real ones anyway, and the colors used by Eduard always look a bit weird to me...

 

Have fun!

Edited by ChippyWho
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19 hours ago, ChippyWho said:

Really the seat belt protocol is down to whatever you find easiest -for unprinted ones, I think I'd go for attachment then painting.

 

You probably know this already, but any detail painting is best achieved by doing the base color first, then sealing with Future/Klear when it is fully dry. The belts (or whatever) can then be painted with enamels and any stray paint can be wicked off with a pointy brush slightly (very slightly!) moistened with clean white spirit, ideally before it dries completely, without affecting the base paint. Also, if you have a super-pointy brush, where applicable you can carefully remove the enamel from the metal fittings, so you don't need to paint them. A bit of outlining/profiling with artist's oils or whatever, then final clear finish of your choice and you're done. *One thing I just learned the painful way* is NOT to use Revell enamel thinner instead of white spirit for clean-up -danged stuff chewed right through the enamel, the Klear barrier, the acrylic base color and looked like it was gonna take out half the bare resin underneath! :doh:

 

FWIW, I've pretty much given up on metal harnessware anyway -it is almost impossible to get it to drape convincingly, although I haven't yet sampled Eduard's newish thin steel items. I tend to go for resin seats with everything cast in, or attach narrow masking tape (jammydog.com has a selection of PVC or paper types) with superglue at the ends. Then I scalpel off the fasteners/adjusters from etched ones and stick 'em at strategic points! I can't replicate the lovely stitching on printed ones, but you can rarely see much of that on most real ones anyway, and the colors used by Eduard always look a bit weird to me...

 

Have fun!

 

Thanks again Chippy!  All of what you described makes perfect sense, and here comes the big but, but leads me to a couple more questions.  When you protect the base layer/color with Future/Klear, do you spray it on full power or do you thin it?  And as far as colors go for the fabric portions of the belts, do you have a go to color?  This is a P-51, early model.  I am thinking about trying to scratch build my belts using the tape method you described.  It seems to me that might be a little easier than trying to piece together the short p/e sections and then bend them to shape and attach them to the seat.  

 

And let me say thanks to dnl42 and krow113 for sharing their knowledge also.  I appreciate your willingness to help me come back to the hobby I enjoyed so much as a kid 30+ years ago.  

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31 minutes ago, JesusNut said:

 When you protect the base layer/color with Future/Klear, do you spray it on full power or do you thin it?

 

:tumble:...Oh HELL no -never sprayed the stuff in me life! It levels itself out, so just use a soft, flattish brush slightly moistened with water and apply sparingly with slow strokes -this will avoid bubbles forming. Come back 20 minutes later and it's all smooth and satiny. If you'd rather spray it, I heard tell that it's best done at really high pressure (maybe as high as 30-40 psi!) and sort of wafted on from a safe distance while the airbrush is kept moving swiftly back and forth across the target area.

 

As to 'proper' colors, I usually fudge up something that looks vaguely like the best photos I can find. But then I have a largish drawer-cabinet stuffed with all manner of paints accrued over the years -wonder how they all got there...?! :whistle: (Something to do with being unable to leave a model store empty-handed!)

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If you wanna spray the Furure, mix it down 50/50 with isopropanol alcohol , spray at med pressure , light coats , one or two at the most.. This will give a tough hard to scratch surface.

Edited by krow113
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The best advice I ever got about PE...Just do it. I learned a lot from other modelers for which I am very grateful. All the advice in the world didn't do any good until I used it myself. From that I refined my technique. It still came back to Just Do it.

It's like the old I am a spammer, please report this post. ad. Just do it!

Gad. Have I slipped into the "grumpy old man" role? And so young...68!

Cheers

Rick in Maine

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