Rex Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 He said that VMs will be okay. In fact he made a really positive post about including us Jarheads. (but, that was pages and pages back, by now) We just have to watch the year of establishment, just like with the USN units. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Spectre711 said: Are VMFA squadrons going to be included or are we strictly going with Navy? Spectre Like Rex said, I am allowing Marine squadrons in this build as long as they were established on or before the date chosen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 Gang I just realized something! It may make a few of you happier!!! Here is a list of USN Helicopter Squadrons that qualify. HS-2 ( Re designated to HSC-12 on 1/1/09 ) HS-3 ( Re designated to HSC-9 on 6/1/09 ) HS-4 ( Re deignated to HSC-4 on 1/1/12 ) Just remember that if the Squadron was established before the 31 December 1955 and was later Re designated it counts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 T-11 days and counting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger74 Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 On 8/3/2017 at 4:40 PM, tosouthern66 said: Ranger I was going to try and put a list together but found out that that is way harder than I thought. Then I looked at doing a list of squadrons that wouldn't qualify and found that was just as hard and confusing. We will be taking them on one at a time. So if you have any doubts on your chosen squadron just ask and I will try and get an answer for you. Not a problem. My comment was concerning your banner. I know mine qualify as they are all pre-1938. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I should be good with VFP-63 right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 yes, they trace back to VFP-61 and before that they were VC-61. They spent part of their time as a VAP in there also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Cool...doing an RF-8G conversion alongside an F-105 for the MiG killer GB. Hopefully I'll get done in time. I've got some Phantoms on the bench that need to be finished off as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Are you doing the RF-8G without the afterburner scoops,,,,,,,or doing one after the 1977 engine upgrade that got the scoops added on? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Rex, I'm thinking of doing this aircraft. I think the hasty paint over the full color stars and bars adds a bit of visual interest to the scheme. Edited August 21, 2017 by picknpluck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Ok! gang we are a little over a week away from the start of our GB. If I disappear for the next several days it is because of work and the Tropical wave/storm/hurricane that seems to be heading our way by the weekend. I will try and keep in touch but it looks like we are going to be getting busy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petrov27 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) can the subject kit be "slightly started" already? Like the pit is assembled (all three pieces of it) and base color is shot on the cockpit and seats but no other assembly? Also just to check, would the VF-34 Blue Blasters circa 1996 (A-6E) count as a legacy squadron? It sounds like the squadron started as VF-20 in WW2 and became VF-34 later but wikipedia states "Three distinct US Navy squadrons have been designated VA-34. The first squadron to hold the VA-34 designation was in 1948, this squadron was redesignated VA-35 in 1950. The second VA-34 was established in 1943 and disestablished in 1969. The third VA-34, established in 1970, was later redesignated VFA-34" So its a little confusing :) Edited August 23, 2017 by Petrov27 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Petrov27 said: can the subject kit be "slightly started" already? Like the pit is assembled (all three pieces of it) and base color is shot on the cockpit and seats but no other assembly? Also just to check, would the VF-34 Blue Blasters circa 1996 (A-6E) count as a legacy squadron? It sounds like the squadron started as VF-20 in WW2 and became VF-34 later but wikipedia states "Three distinct US Navy squadrons have been designated VA-34. The first squadron to hold the VA-34 designation was in 1948, this squadron was redesignated VA-35 in 1950. The second VA-34 was established in 1943 and disestablished in 1969. The third VA-34, established in 1970, was later redesignated VFA-34" So its a little confusing :) Petrov I have no problem with the cockpit being started as long as that is all that is done before the start date. As for you question on VF-34, I would have to say it does not count due to the disestablishment in 69. The establishment in 70 for the current 34 would not meet the date required in my opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petrov27 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 11 hours ago, tosouthern66 said: Petrov I have no problem with the cockpit being started as long as that is all that is done before the start date. As for you question on VF-34, I would have to say it does not count due to the disestablishment in 69. The establishment in 70 for the current 34 would not meet the date required in my opinion. No worries - I will maybe do a different intruder squadron - I think both VA-52 and VA-145 would qualify for the group build Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger74 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 On 8/23/2017 at 0:00 AM, tosouthern66 said: Petrov I have no problem with the cockpit being started as long as that is all that is done before the start date. As for you question on VF-34, I would have to say it does not count due to the disestablishment in 69. The establishment in 70 for the current 34 would not meet the date required in my opinion. Trying to get clarification on what squadrons qualify, as initial rules on page one weren't completely clear. Based on quote above I take it that the squadron must currently exist in some form and trace lineage back to before designated date. If squadron was disestablished at any time it cannot be included. If I am correct VF-9M does not qualify as it was redesignated as VMF-111 in Marine Corps Reserve and disestablished after Korean War and personnel and equipment was transferred to VMF-112, which still exists today under new designation. My other three qualify after frequent redesignations. VF-3B eventually becomes VFA-41, VF-6 transforms to VFA-31 Tomcatters and finally VF-10M is now VMFA-232. Am I correct? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Disestablishment wouldn't disqualify a Unit. Being Established from scratch after the 1955 date disqualifies a Unit, though. So, the earlier VF-131 that was Disestablished before 1955 does qualify, but, the one Established and then Disestablished during the Constellation's Shakedown cruise in 1962 does not qualify. Likewise, VFA-131, which was formed even later, doesn't qualify. (even though VFA-131 is the only one of the three that existed long enough to actually create a legacy) It is the break in a squadron's existence that can kick them out, depending on if that break is before or after the 1955 date. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted August 24, 2017 Author Share Posted August 24, 2017 Sorry for the confusion guys. If the squadrons lineage is there dating back to or before the 31 December 1955 and the unit is currently active it qualifies. If the unit was disestablished after the date chosen and the amount of time was years before it was reestablished then we get into a sticky situation. If a unit was redesignated from it's original unit to another unit and dates back before the cut off date then it qualifies. The main idea is it has to have an active streak of at least 61 years and be currently active. I will make exceptions if it has the streak of 61 years and was established before the date chosen and is not currently active then I will allow it in. I do not know of any that would qualify for this exception. I hope this makes sense to you, cause I had to re collect my thoughts on this myself.If you have any questions please ask. If you don't want to ask in the open forum please send me a pm and I will try and answer you as soon as I can. The next few days I may or may not be able to reply due to the storm in the Gulf. It is currently looking like Corpus Christi is getting it but it has not made landfall yet and can change directions towards me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Oh, I didn't see the "currently active" part of that. Geez, that bumps a TON of Skyhawks, Phantoms and Crusaders off the "approved list" that I originally thought would qualify. Good thing that I still have a week to look over my "build cards" to choose models from. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petrov27 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Ah - I missed the currently active part also - duh on my part! So I guess a Navy Intruder is out as I think there are no current active squadrons other than Blue Blasters that flew it in their history. No worries thinking a VFA-192 Golden Dragons Skyhawk or Hornet instead.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 If we are limiting this to currently active squadrons, that will severely restrict the builds that will be possible. You'll get a bunch of Super Hornets and a smattering of others. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 (edited) You can build a Navy Intruder,,,,,,,it just has to be from one of the squadrons that transitioned to Hornets, and still exists as a VFA. (and was formed under any designation before 11/55) Heck, pick the right VFA and you could trace that lineage back far enough to build a TBM Avenger, or maybe an AM-1 Mauler. (I'd have to check Mauler squadrons to be sure, though, that is just a random example off the top of my head of a "weird aircraft" that might qualify) The good news is that now that only about 10% of Navair history qualifies, a list of eligible VFA, VF, VA, and VMA, VMF, and VMFA squadrons would only take about 2 hours to type up and paste in here, with their designation and date strings added. Edited August 24, 2017 by Rex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petrov27 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Yeah I was looking at the active Navy Hornet squadrons but I didnt see any other than VFA-34 that had the Intruder in its history - I will keep lookin though.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Petrov, the USMC F/A-18D squadrons all flew Intruders. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petrov27 Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Yeah - I was thinking USN Squadron but if USMC is included then maybe a Hawks A-6 from Vietnam or Gulf War would be a good option Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adamitri Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 No offense, but I dont really understand why you wont allow a jet to be in both this group build and the MiG/Su killer group build. But your rules so...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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