rotorwash Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Here are the Italeri and Kitty Hawk roofs (the ESCI roof is part of the fuselage). One thing that Italeri got right and Kitty Hawk missed was the non-skid surface on the roof walk area. Since this is an OOB build, I didn't want to make any major changes to the kit, but I did tape off the individual rows of rivets and fill them in so that the roof looks a little better. Ray Edited July 4, 2017 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tank Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Archer Fine Transfer makes a nonskid sheet. MIG makes a anti-skid paste you can use to make nonskid. A couple of options to help fix the issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Not sure that you would even see the detail of the non skid in 48 scale anyway. Filing the rivets in should do fine. BTW, our hueys had the non skid, but it had been painted over..over and over again. Some times with black paint or CARC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Off subject, Does anyone make aftermarket soundproofing? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, huey_crew_chief said: Off subject, Does anyone make aftermarket soundproofing? Try wine. The foil that is added to some is in the same diamond shape. I used it on my MH-47E. Floyd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) For soundproofing, i would use wine foil and emboss the quilted design with a steel ruler or pizza cutter. Edit ( Nevermine, Floyd beat me to the enter button. Funny, I was thinking of Floyd's MH-47 build where he used wine foil for just what he said while I was typing this out!) Tim Edited June 17, 2017 by hawkwrench Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 29 minutes ago, huey_crew_chief said: Not sure that you would even see the detail of the non skid in 48 scale anyway. Filing the rivets in should do fine. BTW, our hueys had the non skid, but it had been painted over..over and over again. Some times with black paint or CARC. I agree, Dave. In fact, at this scale rivet detail would also be virtually invisible. I wonder if Vietnam maintenance did the same thing and painted the roof all OD? I have only seen a few good shots of Vietnam birds and as I recall all were black. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
salvador001 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Great job on the non skid area of the roof Ray! Dont know why KH missed this part. Honestly i didnt noticed that before LOL. Thanks buddy! Rod. Edited June 20, 2017 by salvador001 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winnie Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I would just paint it with flat black, and perhaps fade it (lots). The rivets and screws are very visible though, as you skuff them by walking on the rooftop. I will post a picture later, but my internet is slow right now (at work). I took a picture on top of my very own 212 that I flog around for work... Cheers H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CharlieUH-1H Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Agree with Harald what can be done is paint the area with flat black and with a very very very soft sand paper give this area some love that way it should shape to look like this non-skid surface area on the roof (I am not a pro, but is just an Idea of what to do in this case) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
salvador001 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Or you could just glue some 600 grit sand paper onto the non skid area, will give it a great look. But try to find the most thin paper with almost no backpaper. For the soundproofing i have used aluminum foil and made the lines with a toothpick. Rod. Edited June 21, 2017 by salvador001 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tank Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, CharlieUH-1H said: Agree with Harald what can be done is paint the area with flat black and with a very very very soft sand paper give this area some love that way it should shape to look like this non-skid surface area on the roof (I am not a pro, but is just an Idea of what to do in this case) I would use the hairspray technique. Grey base color, OD (body color) layer then black for nonskid. Between each layer spray two fine coats of hairspray and allow each to fully dry. Once done, come back with a brush and little bit of water. With practice you will have uneven wear and look very close to the real fading. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Ok, so I see we need to talk a bit more about this roof walk area. First, not all of them are the same. For instance, here's the highly textured surface on a Navy HH-1N I photographed at the USS Alabama: Here's the roof on a UH-1H at the Mid America Air Museum in Liberal, Kansas. Note there is no rough texture but there is a sheet of (aluminum?) with a diamond pattern on it. From what I can tell UH-1H's didn't ever have the rough texture seen on the UH-1N above. That being said I'm sure SOME UH-1H somewhere did though! You can see the separate panel even better on this UH-1H on display at the veterans memorial in Midland, Texas. You can see the rivet lines mentioned by Harold here on this unpainted roof in Karl Renz III's shop in Arizona. He also has an old AMARG bird showing how the roof and the body were painted the same a lot of times just as Dave mentioned above. This is, of course, highly weathered CARC. Here is an actual Vietnam photo from Pat Mullen showing a formation flight of two UH-1H's and one UH-1D (middle aircraft) from the 190th AHC. There are several interesting things to be learned from this shot. First, the flat antenna on the roof was used in Vietnam. Oops, I missed that when we were working on the CAD for the KH Huey. In fact, it seems most Vietnam H models had the flat antenna on the roof. Second, check the floor on the foreground bird. Floyd nailed the dirty look in his build. Third, look at the color of the aircraft. All three are "OD" but the foreground bird is clearly a very different shade from the other two. This only reinforces my oft repeated observation that there is no such thing a "correct" OD color. It all depends on the bird you are building. Lastly, look at the roofs and note that the foreground two have black walk areas but the background aircraft has an all OD roof, much like the above aircraft and Dave's earlier comment about late model Hueys. So that happened in Vietnam as well to some extent. As for replicating the roof walk area on a model, I think that filling the rivets in the kit and painting the area black will really make it stand out from the rest of the roof. In my mind this will represent the roof walk area well. In retrospect, I probably should have just left the rivet detail and simply painted the area black. I see no reason to go all crazy with textured sandpaper or spending hours adding texture since that's not how the real aircraft is built. HTH Ray Edited July 4, 2017 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Ray, good reference stuff! That area is its own panel or piece of strengthened sheet metal. It is there because that is the only area of the roof that you can stand on, so it is there to support people standing on it. From what I remember it is a type of crosshatched diamond plate (different than traditional diamond plating that you use for a 4x4). Again, I am sure it started out being black and gritty, but over the years it was painted over and over again. They last ones we had painted were literally painted with black paint..not non stick, but paint. These were painted at Fort Hood with Back Hawk stenciling. They looked horrible. The data plate did not fit on the pillar and some of the info was actually on the jump door. The Army markings were not centered on the tail boom, but more toward the top. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 2 hours ago, salvador001 said: Or you could just glue some 600 grit sand paper onto the non skid area, will give it a great look. But try to find the most thin paper with almost no backpaper. For the soundproofing i have used aluminum foil and made the lines with a toothpick. Rod. That's what I was thinking Floyd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, Floyd S. Werner, Jr. said: That's what I was thinking Floyd With all due respect, why bother? Faded paint for that scale would be just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Here's a closeup of the roof of an h model in storage at Ft. Rucker. you can clearly see the diamond pattern and the glopped on paint/material over it. Also, check that teardrop antenna. It looks like I built it! Ray Edited July 4, 2017 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 I'm thinking I'll fill the rivets much like Ray did. Paint it flat black and weather it. Although just painting it flat black and adding a grey panel line wash in the rivets I want to show wear would be pretty effective for wear and tear. That is what I was gonna do to the nose. I will not put the proseal (grey stuff) on the antenna. Floyd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CharlieUH-1H Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Really amazing reference photos Ray! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, rotorwash said: Here's a closeup of the roof of an h model in storage at Ft. Rucker. you can clearly see the diamond pattern and the glopped on paint/material over it. Also, check that teardrop antenna. It looks like I built it! Ray Is that the hanging medevac? I seem to remember it had the teardrop antenna. I never saw any of ours have this type. Usually it had the square antenna, or a prosealed patch over the hole where it used to be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Ah yes, good ole proseal. MIL-8802 I think. That stuff was a pain to work with and a MAJOR pain to get off your hands! IIRC, the UH-60 had this stuff on the rotorhead everywhere! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, hawkwrench said: Ah yes, good ole proseal. MIL-8802 I think. That stuff was a pain to work with and a MAJOR pain to get off your hands! IIRC, the UH-60 had this stuff on the rotorhead everywhere! Tim If I remember correctly, MEK will take it off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 MEK on skin??? Not these days. I might have used it back in the day, but not now. We used to dip our blackhawk rims in a tub of that stuff in order to strip off all the paint so we could powder coat it and dye penetrant the rims for cracks. Boy did it work!!!! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 47 minutes ago, hawkwrench said: MEK on skin??? Not these days. I might have used it back in the day, but not now. We used to dip our blackhawk rims in a tub of that stuff in order to strip off all the paint so we could powder coat it and dye penetrant the rims for cracks. Boy did it work!!!! Tim NO! meant getting the proseal of the parts it was not supposed to be. I think we wore gloves Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winnie Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Wow, great explanations and illustrations. I won't have to upload the pictures then. I agree with what has been said above with regards to paint. The area has the diamond pattern, but what my company did in addition was to add silica sand in black paint, to make it less slippery. it is a 212 but the roof itself is the same as a 205/UH-1. Looks to many ways to defur a feline! Can't wait to get my grubby mitts on a few of these... Cheers H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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