jabow Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 On 6/12/2017 at 7:49 PM, rotorwash said: Floyd asked me to start with the rotors since he is working on the body right now in his thread. So, first off, here are the respective pieces of the rotor system, including the transmission. ESCI-11 pieces including a combined engine/transmission. Italeri: 8 pieces including a "transmission" and I use the term loosely. Note, of course, the inaccurate 212 blades. While a relatively easy fix, since this is an OOB build, I will not be correcting them. Kitty Hawk: 21 pieces including separate drag braces, scissor links, pillow block and pitch horns. Here's a side by side comparison of the main rotor blades. The Kitty Hawk blade (top) does not have part of the blade grip molded to it like the other two. This greatly aids painting of the blade before installation. Also, the KH blade is the only one with the blade tie down included. Note, of course, the inaccurate 212 blades in the Italeri kit (center). While a relatively easy fix, since this is an OOB build, I will not be correcting them. One concession I did make was to drill out the tie down points on the KH main rotor. Here you can see before and after. Here are the stab bars for each kit. The Kitty Hawk part (top) is by far the closest to the real thing as you can see form the stab bar on the UH-1B below. The stab bar was identical on all Hueys during the Vietnam era. what I really like on the KH part are the mixing levers which, while still attached to the stab bar, are set apart from it. Rotor masts compared. First the BAD sides. Red arrows point to ejector pin marks. While I don't like the fact that some dampner detail is sacrificed on the Kitty Hawk part (center), it beats the heck out of having ejector pin marks on the rotor mast and scissor links like the ESCI and Italeri parts. Yellow arrows point to the swash plate which is much nicer on the Kitty Hawk kit and even includes some PE which I have already installed in this photo. The green arrows point to the scissor links which are separate parts in teh Kitty Hawk kit but were installed for these comparison photos. Here's the GOOD side showing the parts with no ejector pin marks. The red arrows point to the dampner details on all three kits. The KH kit (center) blows the other two away. Compare it to the actual dampners below. Here's a rotor mast on a UH-1H to compare with the kit parts above. Here is a quick comparison of the good and bad side of the KH kit showing the lost detail on the dampner. It's really hard to see this on the finished part though and it could be corrected if desired. This photo also shows the mold line on the mast. Unfortunately, this is pretty common issue with round parts in most kits, but I was able to clean it up fairly well. Now on to the main attraction, the main rotor head. First the one negative of the KH part. The right blade grip shows the seam which runs all the way around the part. I have cleaned it off on the right blade grip. Honestly, it is a small price to pay for the one piece rotorhead. The blades slip in between the attachment points on the blade grip. I used the blades to get the angles right on the drag braces (blue arrow). The green arrow shows the TT strap retention nut. It is a first on any Huey kit or even after market part. the red arrow points to the pitch horn, which are separate pieces in the KH kit. B careful installing these. The upper arrow point to one installed correctly, while the lower arrow points to a pitch horn I installed with too much upward angle. Trust me, this will make a difference later. The part should sit flush with the vertical edge on the blade grip. It's only a small amount, but it matters. Finally, notice the pillow block with the PE parts. While not 100% like the original, it isn pretty darn close! Here is a photo showing the TT strap nut on the real thing. In my opinion this photo shows why the KH kit is light years above the competitors, check out the three rotorheads compared. Seeing them side by side almost makes it very hard to ever build any other Huey kit. The others aren't even close. By the way, the upper pitch horn on the KH kit is installed correctly and sits away from the rotorhead. I had to fix the lower one. i would give a distant second place to the Italeri rotorhead (center) and a dismal third to the ESCI part. How do these three compare to the real thing. Keep in ind his is a UH-1B rotorhead, but it is the only Huey I have ever had a chance to photograph from directly above so juct disregard the blade counterweights on the drag brace attachments. You guys tell me, but I think Kitty Hawk nailed it. Next up will be finished pics of the rotors and moving on to some more parts. Ray Not seeing the Blade Grip Reservoir that sit on top of the Grips and was filled with oil. Bolt ran thru it and oil level was mid way on bolt. You see it on the B Model when viewed from above. Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 Bo, You are right. They missed they missed the oil reservoir. If it wasn't an OOB build, I would fix that. Just a couple of bits of styrene should do the trick. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 11 hours ago, rotorwash said: Bo, You are right. They missed they missed the oil reservoir. If it wasn't an OOB build, I would fix that. Just a couple of bits of styrene should do the trick. Ray Pretty simple fix. If ya wanna go crazy, sandwich a slice of clear rod between two Gull Grey thin sheets of plastic and glue on blade grips. If ur gonna display model with doors open, gotta make new sliding armor plate in rear position so crew can get in/out. And add T/R Pedals adjustment knob just aft of both cyclic boots. Hey, this kit is LIGHT Years ahead of any other kit out there!! Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewPerren Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 OK quick question : What is this circled antenna for? My guess might be DME or VOR or something like that. Inquisitive minds would like to know. It was available in the old Italeri kit. Whilst this is a more modern pic the RAAF Hueys definitely had this mounted towards the end of Vietnam involvement. It is missing from the new KH sprues unfortunately. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, AndrewPerren said: OK quick question : What is this circled antenna for? My guess might be DME or VOR or something like that. Inquisitive minds would like to know. It was available in the old Italeri kit. Whilst this is a more modern pic the RAAF Hueys definitely had this mounted towards the end of Vietnam involvement. It is missing from the new KH sprues unfortunately. Andrew, Do you have any photos of the antenna in Vietnam? I never say never but I can't recall seeing any. You also have to remember that Floyd and I were working under the assumption that the first release would be strictly US in Vietnam so we never looked at foreign users at all. Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) Well I answered my own question about the Bushranger. 9 Sqn Royal Australian Air Force, Bushranger Gunship Nui Dat Vietnam 69-70 from John Gibson. You can clearly see the antenna Andrew mentioned under the belly. Ray Edited June 25, 2017 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewPerren Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Ha Ha Ray that's funny - you asking us for Huey pics ! Here is a close up of the aerial on a museum aircraft but I believe it is the same item. It definitely has a forward facing side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
midnightprowler Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Looks easily scratchbuilt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 8 hours ago, AndrewPerren said: OK quick question : What is this circled antenna for? My guess might be DME or VOR or something like that. Inquisitive minds would like to know. Radar altimeter? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 44 minutes ago, 11bee said: Radar altimeter? Nah, no such thing in Vietnam. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, huey_crew_chief said: Nah, no such thing in Vietnam. World wide, there were soooooo many configurations. Gotta leave something for 'After Market Guys'. The US Army needed VFR pilots so we only got a 'Tactical IFR' ticket. Had to be able to do climbing/descending turns and shoot a GCA landing. Later, after returning, Army made everyone get regular IFR rating. And, my Reserve Unit, had some of the very best Instrument Rated IP's I know of. Very fortunate to get that type of training. When I finished, took FAA check ride and Examiner gave me a 'stuck card ADF approach' to local airport. I missed RW Center line some 10 or so degrees. Felt bad that I missed he and he said, the average pilot wouldn't be able to find the Airport, much less RW center line!! ?? We DID have excellent IFR training. EDIT: I passed FAA and got my Instrument ticket. Bo Demon 68 Edited June 25, 2017 by jabow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 33 minutes ago, jabow said: World wide, there were soooooo many configurations. Gotta leave something for 'After Market Guys'. The US Army needed VFR pilots so we only got a 'Tactical IFR' ticket. Had to be able to do climbing/descending turns and shoot a GCA landing. Later, after returning, Army made everyone get regular IFR rating. And, my Reserve Unit, had some of the very best Instrument Rated IP's I know of. Very fortunate to get that type of training. When I finished, took FAA check ride and Examiner gave me a 'stuck card ADF approach' to local airport. I missed RW Center line some 10 or so degrees. Felt bad that I missed he and he said, the average pilot wouldn't be able to find the Airport, much less RW center line!! ?? We DID have excellent IFR training. EDIT: I passed FAA and got my Instrument ticket. Bo Demon 68 So there was radar altimeters on helicopters during that period? I did not know that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, huey_crew_chief said: So there was radar altimeters on helicopters during that period? I did not know that. Not on any US Army Huey's I flew. Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 hours ago, jabow said: Not on any US Army Huey's I flew. Bo So, back to my original statement, I don't think there was a such thing for helicopters in Vietnam(US or anyone else).. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winnie Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 The same antenna is on the US Navy UH-1N but I have no clue what it is. Could be the NDB antenna, but I have no clue. It is clearly visible on the UH-1N filmed in the movie "Towering Inferno"... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I found this over on FSM. It wouldn't be #7 would it? Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) On 6/25/2017 at 9:05 PM, hawkwrench said: I found this over on FSM. It wouldn't be #7 would it? Tim Pretty sure I posted that over there, Tim and no, I do not believe it is the same antenna. In fact, I don't believe US Army Hueys ever had the belly antenna seen on the Aussie birds. You know any different, Dave? Ray Just for completeness you can see the marker beacon antenna (7) on this UH-1H on display in Rogers, Arkansas. It's the antenna on the center line directly aft of the landing light. Edited July 4, 2017 by rotorwash Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Obviously I'm Huey stupid!!! Hehe Excuse me while I walk back over to my corner and STHU!!!! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndrewPerren Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 Sorry for the ol' The same antenna is on the UH/HH-1N as already stated ( USMC / US Navy / USAF & Canada) and it was also on the RNZAF UH-1H and the RAAF UH-1B ( Ironically haven't seen it on RAN UH-1B) Fortunately I have a couple of Italeri D & N kits that are parts donors - probably should refine the part and master it for casting. Good news is that an early Vietnam RAAF UH-1H can still be done without it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 55 minutes ago, hawkwrench said: Obviously I'm Huey stupid!!! Hehe Excuse me while I walk back over to my corner and STHU!!!! Tim No worries. I can't believe we don't know what it is, but I WILL find out! Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 32 minutes ago, rotorwash said: No worries. I can't believe we don't know what it is, but I WILL find out! Ray You ARE the Huey man, Ray!!! You'll sniff it out like a coondog hunting a rabbit! (I guess coondogs hunt rabbits, or am I coondog stupid too???) Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tank Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 I thought they used coondogs to hunt coons, as in raccoons. Don't think I heard of anyone hunting rabbits with a coon dog, but I guess you could. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 6 hours ago, hawkwrench said: You ARE the Huey man, Ray!!! You'll sniff it out like a coondog hunting a rabbit! (I guess coondogs hunt rabbits, or am I coondog stupid too???) Tim So far I have two votes for Radar Altimeter and one for possible Doppler Nav antenna. I am hoping one of my friends at Bell will have a definitive answer though. For the record, Coon dogs make great squirrel dogs as well. I can't really comment on their rabbit hunting abilities! Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
huey_crew_chief Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 9 hours ago, rotorwash said: So far I have two votes for Radar Altimeter and one for possible Doppler Nav antenna. I am hoping one of my friends at Bell will have a definitive answer though. For the record, Coon dogs make great squirrel dogs as well. I can't really comment on their rabbit hunting abilities! Ray I vote Doppler, I think we can all say that Hueys (from all countries) in Vietnam did not have the radar altimeter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rotorwash Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, huey_crew_chief said: I vote Doppler, I think we can all say that Hueys (from all countries) in Vietnam did not have the radar altimeter. Good point! Ray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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