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Super Hornet shoots down Syrian SU-22

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1 hour ago, Dave Roof said:

 

Being 'First' has never been my concern. :thumbsup:

Dave

 

 I agree accuracy and quality counts more!

Edited by tosouthern66

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While speculation is never good and usually shown to be wrong I'd like to throw a few questions out there and see what we collectively know or think about the event

 

Navy Times

...but nearly two hours later a Syrian SU-22 dropped bombs on SDF fighters, according to Sunday’s news release. 
“In accordance with rules of engagement and in collective self-defense of Coalition partnered forces, [the Syrian SU-22] was immediately shot down by a U.S. F/A-18E Super Hornet,” the news release said. 
 
and from the Aviation Geek a little more flesh after a couple of days
 

According to Navy Capt. Jeff Davis,a Pentagon spokesman in fact, the two Super Hornets, which as we have explained were flying near the town of Ja’Din, just south of Tabqah, Syria to provide air cover to Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) members, “saw the Su-22 approaching. It again had dirty wings; it was carrying ordinance. They did everything they could to try to warn it away. They did a head-butt maneuver, they launched flares, but ultimately the Su-22 went into a dive and it was observed dropping munitions and was subsequently shot down.”

“Dirty wings” is a military term used to describe a plane carrying armaments. In “a head-butt maneuver, the planes fly just in advance of another to create heavy wake and get its attention,” Davis explained.

As we have reported immediately after the Syrian Su-22 dropped its bombs, two American F/A-18E Super Hornets, flying from the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush, engaged, firing an AIM-9 – a short-range air-to-air missile – at the Syrian plane from about half a mile away.

But as US officials told CNN the Syrian jet deployed defensive flares, causing the US missile to miss its target. The U.S. pilot shot a second missile, in the form of an AIM-120 which hit its intended target, downing the Syrian warplane and forcing its pilot to eject.

 

What we do know in addition to the above.

At least two F-18E Hornets from VFA-87 were involved  

BU 168914 getting the kill

Modex thought to be 304

 

 
  • It's obvious  that the F-18(s) were very close in terms of both distance and altitude from the Fitter and reacted immediately flowing ordnance release by the Syrian aircraft, with Aim-9 release at 0.6 mile. 
  • What do we think would be the position of the Hornet relative to the Fitter - somewhere to the rear ?
  • It would seem the altitude of both aircraft would be similar, but what height would the SU-22 be likely dropping ordnance from ?
  • What is the colour schemes and marking on Syrian Fitters ?
  • What is a likely/plausible loadout for the Syrian aircraft ?
  • Would the Fitter have had a wingman ( I would assume so ?)
  •  

Lets try and keep wild fool guesses to a minimum but apply some logic and see if we can build a picture, even if it's subsequently proved incorrect.

 

And this quote from someone who has seen the HUD video

 

Pretty interesting video and situation.

 

 

P

Edited by Pete Wenman

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On 6/22/2017 at 1:59 PM, murad said:

... then sidewinders should be shelved for good, no point in maintaining em since aim9 was supposed to prosecute a target at those ranges, not an aim120 ...

 

No.  You use whatever weapon works.  The more types of weapons you have, the more flexibility you have.

 

Regards,

Murph

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All you armchair Sidewinder experts need to realized there is a lot more than simply range involved in a missile engagement scenario.  Just to name a few: aspect/AOT, closure rate, target temperature, background/clutter and countermeasures.

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12 minutes ago, habu2 said:

All you armchair Sidewinder experts need to realized there is a lot more than simply range involved in a missile engagement scenario.  Just to name a few: aspect/AOT, closure rate, target temperature, background/clutter and countermeasures.

This. Way too much sharp shooting by folks who haven't been there.

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On 6/23/2017 at 3:59 PM, shion said:

Some footage of the A/C, refuelling:https://youtu.be/48YFA5tHra8?t=1476

 

With Party 306 and Felix 107.

Well weathered.

 

Party 306 with 1*AIM-120 2*AIM-9X 2*GBU-32 2*GBU-54 1*GBU-38 (and an empty lau-127)

Felix 107 with 2*AIM-120 2*AIM-9X 1*GBU-32 1*GBU-54 2*GBU-38 (with a LAU-127).

 

 

Nice refs, thanks. 

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On 6/21/2017 at 10:21 AM, TaiidanTomcat said:

 

 

The navy will be parading him around soon enough

Wish it was a "her" instead of a "him".   Certain factions over there would go ape-sh*t over a female downing one of their jets. 

 

I've got a family friend who will probably end up being my future son-in-law newly assigned to the carrier, I've asked my daughter to email him and see if (OPSEC permitting), he can provide any pics of the jet that got the kill. 

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The Nay will not be "parading" the pilot around, that would be the stupidest thing they could do because every junior jihadi would be salivating to "even the score".

 

Also notice how the Navy is keeping this low key, we still have people over there and they don't want to in danger any of them encase the worst happens and they come down in enemy territory.

 

Now, remember when someone said OPSEC, well good going guys, you just ID'ed the squadron involved. What do you think is going to happen to an aircrew/pilot that would happen to get captured, do you think they are going to treat him like a hero. Also, are you guys that stupid to think that this site is not watched by other countries foreign intelligence services and jihadi's looking for intel. But hey, let's talk about America's front line air to air missile capabilities and put our service men/women lives in danger for some freaking decals for a model.

 

I'm sure Iran is thanking you right now...........................

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20 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

The Nay will not be "parading" the pilot around, that would be the stupidest thing they could do because every junior jihadi would be salivating to "even the score".

 

Also notice how the Navy is keeping this low key, we still have people over there and they don't want to in danger any of them encase the worst happens and they come down in enemy territory.

 

Now, remember when someone said OPSEC, well good going guys, you just ID'ed the squadron involved. What do you think is going to happen to an aircrew/pilot that would happen to get captured, do you think they are going to treat him like a hero. Also, are you guys that stupid to think that this site is not watched by other countries foreign intelligence services and jihadi's looking for intel. But hey, let's talk about America's front line air to air missile capabilities and put our service men/women lives in danger for some freaking decals for a model.

 

I'm sure Iran is thanking you right now...........................

Easy there.  It takes very little effort to obtain the basics on this incident.  No original content posted here is going to put someone's life in danger.   I highly doubt the Navy will ID the pilot anyway, besides something like "Lt. S".   

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I sure you can guess the squadron markings to be applied. About 8 hours work so far, and I would guess a similar amount left before this one is finished.
Oil on panel
18" x 9"
Working title War Party Rocks

 

td8NgEM.jpg

Edited by Pete Wenman

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Here's food for thought for you.When and if they name the pilot, he may not have been flying his aircraft. There is a chance he was in a different one. I know when I was with 151 in the late 80's our pilots didn't fly there aircraft and times even when their aircraft was available.

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3 hours ago, Pete Wenman said:

 

I sure you can guess the squadron markings to be applied. About 8 hours work so far, and I would guess a similar amount left before this one is finished.
Oil on panel
18" x 9"
Working title War Party Rocks

 

td8NgEM.jpg

Nice job so far Pete

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War Party 304  These are from the Bush's Facebook page, taken few weeks ago. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ken Cartwright said:

I have no idea how meaningful this article is to what really happened, but I thought I'd post it here for reference:

 

http://www.combataircraft.net/2017/06/23/how-did-a-30-year-old-su-22-defeat-a-modern-aim-9x/

Ken

 

That article makes sense to me. We design our stuff and we mostly only have our countermeasures to test against. If you can only test against your own stuff but not our enamies, then our missiles are bound to fail from time to time going against enemy countermeasures.

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The BUNO being stated is not the one in the official reports folks.

 

Nuff said on this subject, have a fine Navy day.

 

Edit: and no, don't ask me for details, just trust me, that isn't the BUNO being reported.

Edited by GW8345

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12 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

The BUNO being stated is not the one in the official reports folks.

 

Nuff said on this subject, have a fine Navy day.

 

Edit: and no, don't ask me for details, just trust me, that isn't the BUNO being reported.

C'mon...you can tell me...I'm cleared!

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On 6/23/2017 at 3:59 PM, shion said:

Some footage of the A/C, refuelling:https://youtu.be/48YFA5tHra8?t=1476

 

With Party 306 and Felix 107.

Well weathered.

 

Party 306 with 1*AIM-120 2*AIM-9X 2*GBU-32 2*GBU-54 1*GBU-38 (and an empty lau-127)

Felix 107 with 2*AIM-120 2*AIM-9X 1*GBU-32 1*GBU-54 2*GBU-38 (with a LAU-127).

 

Great footage. I like that it's not all shaky and camera being jumbled around...this boomer knows what we like to see...must be a modelgeek! (or an AF public rel type...)

 

Note: There are NO NAMES on the aircraft. Hmmmmmmm

Edited by 82Whitey51

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11 hours ago, Ken Cartwright said:

I have no idea how meaningful this article is to what really happened, but I thought I'd post it here for reference:

 

http://www.combataircraft.net/2017/06/23/how-did-a-30-year-old-su-22-defeat-a-modern-aim-9x/

One out of one AIM-9Xs missed. I see this as a trend, all AIM-9s should be thrown away immediately. They are clearly junk....

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The information in the article about the AIM-9s being spoofed by flares was something I'd heard before, and had happened a long time ago, so I am not sure it would apply to current missiles and design practices.  But it was an article discussing the event, so I posted it in case anyone found it worthwhile.

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1 hour ago, 82Whitey51 said:

Great footage. I like that it's not all shaky and camera being jumbled around...this boomer knows what we like to see...must be a modelgeek! (or an AF public rel type...)

 

Note: There are NO NAMES on the aircraft. Hmmmmmmm


Crew names are often scrubbed during combat deployments. IIRC none of the Eagles in ODS had their crew names on them. 

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2 minutes ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:


Crew names are often scrubbed during combat deployments. IIRC none of the Eagles in ODS had their crew names on them. 

Roger that...as are crew/squadron patches when flying in theater etc. ...and they will treat ANYONE they capture the same, regardless of if they think it was you who splashed they're friends aircraft or not...for we are all (or mostly) infidels.

OPSEC be damned...the Navy has already commended VFA-87 with a BZ...it's not a secret, nor are aircraft BuNos.

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3 hours ago, Jonathan_Lotton said:


Crew names are often scrubbed during combat deployments. IIRC none of the Eagles in ODS had their crew names on them. 

 

Not necessarily. The Navy and Marine Corps aren't as anal as the Air Force when it comes to crew names on the jets. A quick perusal through the images on Navy.mil, as well as DVIDS will definitely show that isn't a current trend with Naval squadrons currently deployed.

 

170612-N-JC445-087.JPG

 

 

3 hours ago, 82Whitey51 said:

Roger that...as are crew/squadron patches when flying in theater etc. ...and they will treat ANYONE they capture the same, regardless of if they think it was you who splashed they're friends aircraft or not...for we are all (or mostly) infidels.

OPSEC be damned...the Navy has already commended VFA-87 with a BZ...it's not a secret, nor are aircraft BuNos.

 

 

This whole thing about OPSEC is a bit comical. Nothing that's been posted in this thread has come close to violating OPSEC, especially when the Navy itself is providing up to date news on its current operations via the Navy.mil site and their official Facebook pages! And yeah, the actual BuNo of the shooter isn't going to be shrouded in secrecy either.

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