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MM enamels discontinued?


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I've just read on Britmodeller that the MM enamels are being discontinued. Is that true? Here in the US too? What is the difference in pigment between the acrylics and enamels? Obviously the carrier is different, but if I bought the acrylics and poured off most of the carrier when it settles, then thinned with my beloved lacquer thinner, how would it work? I suppose it's a long shot that anybody has tried that. I think I have a bottle of acrylic helo drab that I bought accidentally - I guess I'll try it.

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It's my understanding Testors is dropping the foreign military colors and associated US colors in the "2nd" rack that most hobby shops have. The base colors in the 1st rack will continue to be produced for now. I don't have that on good authority just yet but will confirm when I go to an industry trade show in a couple of weeks and will see the Testors rep there. 

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It's the Model Master II line that is being dropped.  I've never heard of converting acrylic to non-acrylic paint.  My question would be why would you want to?  If you already have the right color, why not use the acrylic version?  I wish they would expand the acryl line to include the MMII colors they don't have, but I don't foresee that happening.  Some of the most useful MMII colors aren't even made in any other company's line.

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There are some colors on the MM1 rack that have quietly gone bye bye as well with two of the bigger casualties being Camouflage gray and Pale Green. I expect as time goes on the color line will continue to dry up as more and more colors no longer get made.

 

Honestly, I don't know why Rustoleum even bothered with acquisition of Testors/Pactra as they have done some very dumb things, such as the discontinuation of Floquil RR and Pactra lexan spray paint (which was a BIG money maker at the hobby shop level).

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13 minutes ago, Jay Chladek said:

Honestly, I don't know why Rustoleum even bothered with acquisition of Testors/Pactra as they have done some very dumb things, such as the discontinuation of Floquil RR and Pactra lexan spray paint (which was a BIG money maker at the hobby shop level).

Jay

 Rustoleum only acquired Testors as a tax shelter. They run companies they acquire in to the ground then close them down so they can claim a loss on company taxes. There used to be two smaller upcoming spray paint companies back in the 70's that they bought out and did the same thing to. For the life of me I can not remember the names of those two companies. They were not nation wide companies mainly just in a couple states with Texas being one they were in. I am starting to look at other avenues for my paints. Right now I am trying out Scale Finishes paints. I conducted a test of the FS36320 and FS36375. The 36375 is awfully light, more like the bleached paint look on some Hornets. On the 36320 the jury is still out on. It seems to be right from my memory of painting F/A-18A when I was on active duty many moons ago.

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On 6/30/2017 at 6:00 AM, Jay Chladek said:

There are some colors on the MM1 rack that have quietly gone bye bye as well with two of the bigger casualties being Camouflage gray and Pale Green. I expect as time goes on the color line will continue to dry up as more and more colors no longer get made.

 

It's just a step by step process to eventually stop producing the Model Master enamel line all together. With fewer colors available the consumer is forced to switch to other brands. Once they start gaining confidence with something else they'll continue to populate their inventory of paint with that brand. Once their Model Master bottles get used up there won't be a need to resupply with the same thing, they'll continue to use whatever paint brand they've shifted too. 

 

Whether Testor keep the square bottles for a while remains to be seen, after all they are in more locations to include Hobby Lobby and Michaels as well as LHS and HobbyTowns. It's a line of paints that have not changed much in decades. As for Model Master, there's only one way it can go,,,,extinction. 

 

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On 6/30/2017 at 6:23 AM, tosouthern66 said:

Jay

 Rustoleum only acquired Testors as a tax shelter. They run companies they acquire in to the ground then close them down so they can claim a loss on company taxes. There used to be two smaller upcoming spray paint companies back in the 70's that they bought out and did the same thing to. For the life of me I can not remember the names of those two companies. They were not nation wide companies mainly just in a couple states with Texas being one they were in. I am starting to look at other avenues for my paints. Right now I am trying out Scale Finishes paints. I conducted a test of the FS36320 and FS36375. The 36375 is awfully light, more like the bleached paint look on some Hornets. On the 36320 the jury is still out on. It seems to be right from my memory of painting F/A-18A when I was on active duty many moons ago.

There could be some truth to this but Testors has a share of responsibility too. It's a leaderless company. It would not be appropriate to name names but there were some strong egos at one time who were near the top of the corporate hierarchy. Some moved on to other things, some were fired and one or two moved up into Rustoleum and have never looked back. 

 

At one time Testors had a significant "foot print" (20 X 60 ft) at hobby trade shows with large displays and multiple representatives present. Of those representatives only a couple actually knew anything about the product. The rest merely served as sales reps to receive orders from existing dealers (hobby shops). They knew stock numbers, pricing, and how to generate an order but ask them a technical question like the differences between acrylic and enamel paint and they were clueless. The one or two individuals who actually knew and understood the product could speak on a technical level but they are long gone from the company. There is no "product development" only existing "product management". Now days Testors presence at trade shows is the minimum, a 10 X 10 ft space with one rep. 

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86saberboy1

 

 Sounds like you have a mole in the fox hole! lol I can't tell you whats going on inside Testors itself. All I can say is what I remember from the past, I would hope Rustoleum would see the bigger picture here and that we modelers needs Testors. I have tried the other brands and don't like them. I also don't like the MM Acrylics, been having adhesion issues. Testors definitely needs to get the product development up n running. The one change I would like to see them do is go away from the glass jars. I like them but no matter what I do the lids stick and I have to either beat the heck out of them to open them to cutting holes in the lids and transfer paint to the plastic eyedropper type bottles.

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1 minute ago, tosouthern66 said:

86saberboy1

 

 Sounds like you have a mole in the fox hole! lol I can't tell you whats going on inside Testors itself. All I can say is what I remember from the past, I would hope Rustoleum would see the bigger picture here and that we modelers needs Testors. I have tried the other brands and don't like them. I also don't like the MM Acrylics, been having adhesion issues. Testors definitely needs to get the product development up n running. The one change I would like to see them do is go away from the glass jars. I like them but no matter what I do the lids stick and I have to either beat the heck out of them to open them to cutting holes in the lids and transfer paint to the plastic eyedropper type bottles.

Cutting holes,,,,yikes. Granted I have my battle scar (from stitches) across the 1st knuckle of my trigger finger as a result of a shearing Testors bottle. However, having the patience and discipline to do the following-

 

1) Stand up

2) Go to nearest sink

3) Turn faucet on to full hot water

4) Wait for water to get hot

5) Hold bottle at an angle cap down under the hot water for 30 seconds to 1 minute

6) Use regular wrench with jaws in the "open" setting to twist cap

7) do not use vise grips or wrenches with jaws that tighten with increasing pressure

8) Once cap is loose return to man cave

9) Process to utilize contents of Testor bottle

10) If contents no longer function as paint, toss bottle

 

Trust me this procedure works.

  

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53 minutes ago, 86Sabreboy1 said:

Cutting holes,,,,yikes. Granted I have my battle scar (from stitches) across the 1st knuckle of my trigger finger as a result of a shearing Testors bottle. However, having the patience and discipline to do the following-

 

1) Stand up

2) Go to nearest sink

3) Turn faucet on to full hot water

4) Wait for water to get hot

5) Hold bottle at an angle cap down under the hot water for 30 seconds to 1 minute

6) Use regular wrench with jaws in the "open" setting to twist cap

7) do not use vise grips or wrenches with jaws that tighten with increasing pressure

8) Once cap is loose return to man cave

9) Process to utilize contents of Testor bottle

10) If contents no longer function as paint, toss bottle

 

Trust me this procedure works.

  

I'll give it a try. My normal procedure is after getting the paint I need out is to take a paper towel dampened with lacquer thinner and wipe the the lip and threads of the bottle clean. Then use a ever so dampened towel to clean the lid seal. Let it dry off and close. No matter which type it is acrylic or enamel.

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Concerning adhesion issues with MM Acryl, I solved that by thinning them with Tamiya acrylic thinner. Trust me, it works A LOT better than using the Testors acrylic thinner and it seemed to cure the adhesion issues I had with the stuff. I still prefer using the Testors enamels to the acrylics, but during the times I have needed to spray acrylics, the X-20A thinner has not let me down or caused any compatibility or adhesion issues when I have used it with Testors acryl.

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1 hour ago, Jay Chladek said:

Concerning adhesion issues with MM Acryl, I solved that by thinning them with Tamiya acrylic thinner. Trust me, it works A LOT better than using the Testors acrylic thinner and it seemed to cure the adhesion issues I had with the stuff. I still prefer using the Testors enamels to the acrylics, but during the times I have needed to spray acrylics, the X-20A thinner has not let me down or caused any compatibility or adhesion issues when I have used it with Testors acryl.

Jay

 

 I have now given up on Model Masters. Their quality is poor and not getting better. Tested another two bottles of 36320 and 36375. There was no difference in color at all and seemed too dark for 375 and not light enough for 320. I tested some Model Air last night, the 375 looked good comparing it to Hornets on line but the 320 was too dark. I tested Scale Finishes and they are pretty close to what they should be for bleached aircraft. Have some Mission Model Paints coming in this week. I will decide which direction I will go after that. I know it will not be in Testors direction.

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On 6/19/2017 at 11:10 PM, fool on the hill said:

I've just read on Britmodeller that the MM enamels are being discontinued. Is that true? Here in the US too? What is the difference in pigment between the acrylics and enamels? Obviously the carrier is different, but if I bought the acrylics and poured off most of the carrier when it settles, then thinned with my beloved lacquer thinner, how would it work? I suppose it's a long shot that anybody has tried that. I think I have a bottle of acrylic helo drab that I bought accidentally - I guess I'll try it.

Having just returned home from a hobby industry trade show, it is confirmed that the "2nd" or "2000 series" Model Master paint rack is in fact going away. The simple reason, according to the rep, is it isn't selling enough. The intention is to keep the 1st rack, primarily US FS colors going for the foreseeable future along with the tried and true square bottle line. 

 

I expressed that while Testors may see this as a matter of maintaining efficient popular colors of their product line, It's a death knell to consumers. I said it's already being talked about through various sites online and that the loyalists are seriously looking at alternatives. From their perspective, or claims, it's Testors' belief they are simply doing away with a part of the product line no one wants based on the sales numbers. That's the only information they have to go on to determine the future of a particular product in the market place. I don't know that I got the message through to him or not but it's going to come down to us as to whether the remaining Testors Model Master Enamels continue long term or not. 

 

With this doom and gloom I'm sure many are debating where to invest in their vast quantities of paints and colors in the future. I know many like Vallejo and the hobby shops have responded accordingly. However, there is another game changer in the works. Mission Models Acrylics are an incredible paint line that's starting to introduce itself into the market. It's a high quality paint that performs much much better through an airbrush than that of Vallejo and some of the other water based acrylics. For those of you who are going to balk and say they only make armor colors, they just released their aircraft colors with plans for a 3rd introduction of more colors in the near future. 


Hobby retailers are reluctant to bring in yet another brand of paint, understanding the initial start up costs (paint and paint rack) is a substantial investment. Having said that, when the Testors "2000 series" paint rack goes away they will consider another paint line to bring in. Mission Models were at the same convention and made significant inroads with the retailers. The potential to see this shift in brands is very good and we may actually have a superior acrylic product making headway and not for us to only deal with an acrylic line that just gets the job done.

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It's hard for them to sell a product if they don't ship it out to the hobby shops. A shop that I deal with told me that their biggest customer which he orders from has dropped them due to Testors A: Not Answering the Phones or Calling back. B: Testors is not sending them the products. I am done with them as far as I am concerned they can close up and go on unemployment. Rustoleum paints it self can go with Testors.

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1 minute ago, Bushpounder said:

I wrote Testors about this. It took two weeks to get an answer back, but they did confirm the FS line is gone. First Floquil, now MM. I really don't want to go to acrylic! Too old school I guess. May have to! :(

 

Don

Take a look at Mission Models paint when you have a chance. I've seen demos first hand and shot some myself and have to say I'm impressed. They are releasing aircraft colors right now so I'm looking forward to using them on an aircraft project I'm finishing up on. It performs more like that of an enamel than an acrylic.

 

If acrylic's aren't your thing, consider Tamiya Acrylics, they really are not acrylic paint at all, they just call it that. Tamiya is actually an alcohol based cellulose paint. It can even be thinned with lacquer thinner though I prefer to use 91% Isopropyl Alcohol.I shoot very thin coats so either thinning agent works fine. 

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I just read a GREAT review on the Mission paint. I never heard of them until I saw it mentioned above in this thread (by you!). I may grab some to try on one plane and see how it goes. My son uses Vallejo, and it's not bad, but I am not sure I like it yet for my go-to future primary paint. This Mission paint, according to the review, is almost as good as lacquer, which I really liked to read! I appreciate the feedback!

 

Don

 

Edited by Bushpounder
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6 hours ago, Bushpounder said:

I wrote Testors about this. It took two weeks to get an answer back, but they did confirm the FS line is gone. First Floquil, now MM. I really don't want to go to acrylic! Too old school I guess. May have to! :(

 

Don

Don

 

 I did the same thing and was told by Jill and Jesse that only the international and figure paint lines were being discontinued. They said the FS line would remain in production. It doesn't matter to me if it stays or goes, I'm moving on. 

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Here is their email -

"Hi Don,

We are sorry for the disappointment this has caused you. The International Military & Figure Enamels were discontinued due to the lack of support for them in the marketplace."

Yes, it just may be the time to head down a different path as well. Those International colors contain my RLM colors, and my 109s won't look good in FS colors! ;)

 

Don

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11 hours ago, Bushpounder said:

Here is their email -

"Hi Don,

We are sorry for the disappointment this has caused you. The International Military & Figure Enamels were discontinued due to the lack of support for them in the marketplace."

Yes, it just may be the time to head down a different path as well. Those International colors contain my RLM colors, and my 109s won't look good in FS colors! ;)

 

Don

Looks like they omitted an important word in that statement: It should read -  The International Military & Figure Enamels were discontinued due to the lack of OUR support for them in the marketplace. :whistle:

 

Larry

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On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 4:00 AM, Camus272 said:

It's the Model Master II line that is being dropped.  I've never heard of converting acrylic to non-acrylic paint.  My question would be why would you want to?  If you already have the right color, why not use the acrylic version?  I wish they would expand the acryl line to include the MMII colors they don't have, but I don't foresee that happening.  Some of the most useful MMII colors aren't even made in any other company's line.

 

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I've since discovered the difference between the two is the chemical reaction that cures the paint, so just using lacquer thinner is not a solution. That being said, I have years of experience using Model Master enamels with lacquer thinner and occasionally decanted rattle can lacquers. That's one variable I have pinned down with airbrush adjustments and thinning ratios andI'd just as soon stick with what I know.

 

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On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 2:26 AM, 86Sabreboy1 said:

Cutting holes,,,,yikes. Granted I have my battle scar (from stitches) across the 1st knuckle of my trigger finger as a result of a shearing Testors bottle. However, having the patience and discipline to do the following-

 

1) Stand up

2) Go to nearest sink

3) Turn faucet on to full hot water

4) Wait for water to get hot

5) Hold bottle at an angle cap down under the hot water for 30 seconds to 1 minute

6) Use regular wrench with jaws in the "open" setting to twist cap

7) do not use vise grips or wrenches with jaws that tighten with increasing pressure

8) Once cap is loose return to man cave

9) Process to utilize contents of Testor bottle

10) If contents no longer function as paint, toss bottle

 

Trust me this procedure works.

  

1) the plastic caps from most carbonated beverage plastic bottles kinda work as replacements for the metal lids on MM jars. You have to screw them down pretty tight - not death grip tight,  but they must stretch a bit to seal. If they're not sealed, shaking the paint bottle is cause for nitrile gloves and blue language. They are cheap, however, and can be discarded and replaced regularly.

2) look these up on ebay 20pcs Sample Vials Clear Glass Bottles with Aluminum Caps Jars Small Bottle 5ml  (item # 282498412470 ) Careful! 5ml is pretty small.

jars.jpg

Edited by fool on the hill
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