tosouthern66 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 Question What color do you guys use for the two tone aircraft? I just received my Tamiya 1/48 scale kit in and am in the process of planning the build. I have looked all over and seen many recommended paint colors. But I have some concerns with some of the recommended colors. I have been bitten in the past with using some recommended colors. I have not built a Wildcat since I was a kid and back then I just paint brushed on sky blue. Did not know any better and the internet was not around then. So let me know what you guys use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted June 27, 2017 Share Posted June 27, 2017 (edited) I used Model Master Navy Blue Gray, #2055, and MM Flat Gull Gray, #1732, FS36440, on an F4F-3S (below) and an F4F-4. I used Colourcoat Bronze Green, for the cockpit. They also have Blue Gray and Light Gray Edited June 27, 2017 by dnl42 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuNo02100 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Blue grey is harder to get right then most believe. The first batches tended to "chalk up" and fade rather quickly which apparently resulted in a tweak of the formulation. Color experts (Bell and McMillan) do not completely agree on what fresh blue-grey looks like as there are some differences of opinion. The Monogram book by Elliot has some chips in it but they suffer from mis-labeling and also a match from a mid-1943 General Motors FM-1 rather than an earlier Grumman F4F. The WEM, now sovereign, paint for blue gray is to me a tad too green. I have a mix chart for both model master and tamiya that I can dig out. The out of the bottle blue grey from almost all of the companies is too light and blue based upon documents others (bell and McMillan) have reviewed. I have viewed two pieces off of early Grumman built F4Fs and I lean towards either mixing my own and then lightening for scale effect/fading/oxidation or using WEM and doing the same. One thing is for sure, looking at actual relics caused me to reconsider what I had come to believe was blue-grey. BW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 2 hours ago, dnl42 said: I used Model Master Navy Blue Gray, #2055, and MM Flat Gull Gray, #1732, FS36440, on an F4F-3S (below) and an F4F-4. I used Colourcoat Bronze Green, for the cockpit. They also have Blue Gray and Light Gray I have the MM navy blue gray on my list just that there is sooo many different opinions so I was looking for suggestions. Thanks guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 FWIW, Tamiya's cockpit floor is solid--it should be opened up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) I agree with BW on this one. The perfect Navy Blue Gray is a personal decision. On my one and only Tamiya F4F, i used the Model Master ANA Blue Gray (approx FS #35189) on my Tamiya F4F and i was happy with the result. I was building "Pug" Sutherland's plane and i didn't have any photos to go from so i kept it clean. For the underside gray, i started off with Light Gull Gray but it looked too dark, too brown to me. I went back over the gray with Light Aircraft Gray, FS 36495. At first it looked too light but after i gloss coated it, decaled it and put a wash in the panel lines, i was satisfied that i did the right thing. My Prototype F4U-1 took a different approach; on this model i mixed the ANA 607 Sea Gray my mixing Testors MM Gunship Gray (36118), Insignia White (37875) and i added a few drops of Testors 1111 blue (itty bitty bottle). My understanding is Grumman and Vought did not use the same shade of Blue Gray, so i'm providing this for comparison purposes only. Here it is fresh on the model with no clear gloss, flat, or decals on it... Edited June 28, 2017 by Falcon50EX Tried to add text below the second photo but i can't seem to get a word in edgewise so to speak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted June 28, 2017 Author Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) Falcon Your Corsairs blue looks like intermediate blue to me. Of course cameras makes things look different than in person. I do like how they came out Edited June 28, 2017 by tosouthern66 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Yeah, the light balance may be off a bit. I tried to post a photo of the model with the flat coat, decals, etc, on it but Photobucket was being obnoxious. Here are some intermediate photos, with insignia painted on and decals added but no flat coat (Engine and Prop are only press-fit on for photography purposes) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon50EX Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 The yellow balance is off a little bit, but here it is, with the flat coat applied. It looks a little bluer when seen in natural daylight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I used the MM Blue Gray and Light Gull Gray on my Tamiya 1/48 F4U-2 and I'm happy with how it came out. Photo taken outside in natural mid-morning sunlight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuNo02100 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 I think that the photos of the models that have been posted is a good example of the challenge Blue-Grey is. When trying to account for scale effect, fading, oxidation and the fact that some of the pigments that were called out for in the original mix are no longer produced, it is hard to say just what is "right." Nick Millman, along with Dana Bell have both taken a stab at the issue. Del Palmieri in in 1981 article "USN Camouflage of WW2" has consistently been referenced back to and he stated that the color was based on Iron (Prussian) Blue, Titanium Oxide, Antimony Oxide and Lampblack. He gave a 1929 Munsell value as 5B 4/2 and that FS35189 was a good match. However, he did not provide a source for his pigment data or Munsell Value For those that are interested, here is a sample from the fabric of a USMC SB2U-3 circa late December 1941. The question that one might pose is whether paint that was applied to fabric was the same as what was applied to metal, and did it "look" the same. This blue-grey was applied over the light grey that the aircraft had previously worn. You can see it peeking through in the second pic along with the black side code of the aircraft. I think that we have all come to expect something more along the lines of "baby blue" or so. For an aircraft that has baked out in the harsh South Pacific sun, that may be more appropriate. I have seen another fabric sample that is even darker. The pieces of metal that I have seen are also rather dark, almost hard to see any blue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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