JohnS Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Just finished downloading my 13 years worth of photos off Photobucket & deleted my two accounts. Luckily, most of the Internet forums I frequent allow image uploads (e.g. ARC-thank you!). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bobo1953 Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 i subscribe whole heartedly your position, ken. and i want to stress, for all that still think that phoptobucked acted rightfully, that sure. they had all liberty of changng their rules; what is unbearable is that they did that retoactively. as already stated doing that is stepping on the head of your own customers. should they have said well from now on anyone who wants to post on third party will have to pay,,,whatever, we wouldn't have very likely even been here spending our time in moaning. i firmly believe that retroactivity was the worst of all this matter. bobo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ken Cartwright said: No one put a gun to the heads of the people running Photobucket and forced them to offer the free hosting - they decided that could be a good business model and started their site based on that all on their own. Yes, that is probably true. However, as the business grew and more people started using it, their costs to run it had to have increased. You can't continue to take financial losses running a business just so you don't inconvenience people. At some point, the costs are going to exceed the income and decisions need to be made in order to remain in business. As I'm sure you're aware, that's just the way it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Janissary Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 The moment when "bait-and-switch" becomes "bait-and-sink" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Guys First let me say I am sorry if my comments offended anyone. I was just trying have fun with the PB issue. Do I think what they done is right, no. Can I do anything about it, no. Can I have fun with it and call them whatever I want (as long as it's clean on here), I hope so. I am not opposed to some one making money. But what they want is way over the top, I don't like it and I can't do anything to change their minds. All I can do is move to another photo sharing site for the forums that I frequent the require a site like that to share. I am glad Steve has allowed us to directly upload our images. Now I just have to learn how to change my sizing of my pics to get down to the 102 kb the system tells me I have to use. It will take me a while to learn this as I am no tech guy. I am lucky I can get on here, do searches and pay some of my bills online. Once again if I said something that someone felt was over the top I am sorry. Now lets build! Ok, now PB has crossed the line as far as I am concerned. I went to go download my mobil pics that I want to keep and all my pics have little lock emblems on them and I can not even click on them. Sorry but these are my images not theirs. Now this is theft! Edited July 1, 2017 by tosouthern66 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, tosouthern66 said: Ok, now PB has crossed the line as far as I am concerned. I went to go download my mobil pics that I want to keep and all my pics have little lock emblems on them and I can not even click on them. Sorry but these are my images not theirs. Now this is theft! Yes, THAT'S different. Surely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 If you have a Facebook Account go to PB's page and look at all the outrage on there. We are not the only ones. Others are post heavily on FB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Bobo1953 said: 56 minutes ago, Bobo1953 said: should they have said well from now on anyone who wants to post on third party will have to pay,,,whatever, we wouldn't have very likely even been here spending our time in moaning. i firmly believe that retroactivity was the worst of all this matter. bobo. Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the essence of the whole thing! Best regards Gabor Edited July 1, 2017 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Agree with Dave, it's their business model. PB makes money two ways, by paid subscription and by ads. When someone (you, me, anyone) posts a direct link to an image file here or in any other forum they deny PB the advertising revenue stream because you don't have to go to their site to see the image (and all the ads) they host on their website. They probably never had any intention of providing a "free" image hosting service but, once folks figured out how to link directly to image files, they tolerated it until the practice became so widespread it cut into their revenue stream. This reminds me of the local transit system here, I'm sure it has happened in other places. The transit system asks you to buy a ticket to ride the bus or train but they have little or no enforcement to make you buy a ticket. A few people realize they can ride for free because the rules aren't enforced. At some point so many people stop buying tickets and ride for free that the transit system can't cover their operating costs. They put transit officers on every bus and train to check that each passenger has a purchased a valid pass to ride. If you don't have a ticket to ride you get booted off at the next stop. Some of the freeloaders b*tch and moan because now they have pay for some that wasn't really free in the first place. I said earlier PB might have based their $400 price point on estimates of lost revenue. I also think it is a possibility they set the price so friggin' high that no sane person would pay, thus ensuring PB ads always get viewed when viewing an image hosted on their site. And if someone does pay them $400 well, as PT Barnum said...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tosouthern66 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Here is food for thought for you on them losing out on revenue. If you click on the picture to see it larger it takes you to their site. What happens when you go their site this way, pop up adds plus it gives them free advertising for their service. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thommo Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Testing direct upload (attachment) with dramatically reduced pic size (99KB). Quicker than PB at least . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 PB is probably running a simple javascript that redirects hotlinks to their "pay to play" banner. If PB was smart they would have scripted a task that redirects you to the PB page containing the linked image instead. That way they get their ad stream and all the hotlinked images can still be viewed indirectly instead of missing in action, ruining forum threads. I have been to many sites that try to prohibit right-click-save to protect their images. If you are familiar with html and javascripting you can usually still "get to" the image. I don't condone that but it is possible. I would imagine some savvy soul could do the same with PB's script. just sayin'...... :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizar Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 PB bloated their page with ADs,with UBlock Origin I can avoid everything but that dang window which opens once per day.A week ago I could not even look at my images cause some fishy script was detecting UBO and had to change some stuff to prevent that,is not that I had tons of pics there but since Imageshack did the same and we all know how well it ended I'm expecting them to drop dead verily soon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Cartwright Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dave Roof said: Yes, that is probably true. However, as the business grew and more people started using it, their costs to run it had to have increased. You can't continue to take financial losses running a business just so you don't inconvenience people. At some point, the costs are going to exceed the income and decisions need to be made in order to remain in business. As I'm sure you're aware, that's just the way it is. Right, I understand they can't lose money just to make everyone happy, and they probably had to make a choice of either charging more or going away entirely, but what they changed the charges to seems out of alignment of its worth, based on other available options, so they will probably end up going away anyway. Edited July 1, 2017 by Ken Cartwright Quote Link to post Share on other sites
White Wolf Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Those who said people are overreacting or being whiny and entitled are completely missing the point. From what I know, Photobucket did not give its users advance warning or a choice in this matter before pulling the trigger. No email saying anything like, "Hey, we're going to make some changes to our TOS soon, it's your decision to upgrade or move your photos to another host.". It came out of the blue, and plenty of unlucky users couldn't even access or download their albums because they had already busted the limit before this. If the idea of that doesn't make you uncomfortable in the slightest, then I don't know what else to say. Edited July 1, 2017 by White Wolf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FluffyK Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) Quote 'll tell you what......go start a business and offer your services for free. After a month or so, come back and let us know how it's working out for you. Oh, and no one 'lost' anything. Everyone's photos are still in their photobucket account. The only thing that was lost was everyone else's ability to see them in forums like this. Really? I mean, really? First, it was PB that decided to offer those services for free. They made that offer, nobody forced them. Nobody took advantage of them. Second, PB did nothing to let people know this might be happening, it was just done to them, and most can't do a thing about it. If you run a business, you really think it's OK to treat customers like this? Finally, I'd to point out that for an organization that made such a big stinking deal about 3rd-party linkings, they sure went out of their way to make it incredibly easy, didn't they? Again, if you run a business, are you going to make it really easy (and seemingly legit) for your customers to do something you don't want them to do? PB messed this up badly. Oh, and - by the way? Looks like YOU exceeded your limit too. How about that. Edited July 1, 2017 by FluffyK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Dave Roof said: <...> It was OK for all of you to use their service for FREE all these years, but now that they want and/or need to charge, you're ready to watch their business burn to the ground? <...> Did it ever occur to any of you that there are people behind photobucket and they need to support families? Did you not stop and think that maybe, just maybe, all of these years of offering a FREE service put the business in jeopardy of failing? Yes, the ads were annoying. However, it is possible the ads weren't generating the needed revenue to keep the business afloat. What's more, the actual ability to post your photos on sites like ARC for FREE may have directly impacted the loss of revenue by others not having to go to their site to view your photos. <....> I'll tell you what......go start a business and offer your services for free. After a month or so, come back and let us know how it's working out for you. Oh, and no one 'lost' anything. Everyone's photos are still in their photobucket account. The only thing that was lost was everyone else's ability to see them in forums like this. Yeah, nah, sorry Dave, while you have some good points, they're not really applicable to this train-wreck of a mess PB got themselves into here. Yup, plenty of people use the free account. No one forced PB to be free. And if you have to change your policies to survive as a business, COMMUNICATE that. They're not only screwing the free accounts. Quite a lot of people have paid for their accounts. And it's not like people are baulking at having to pay for PB's service, they're (rightly!) miffed that PB is basically holding the accounts hostage to get an insane amount of money. And at about 10+ times of what competitors charge, it is insane. PB changed horses in midstream. That's just not proper business practice. And they changed them overnight, with no warning. Tremendously BAD idea in today's world. "Excessive linking to third-party sites" - what exactly constitutes "excessive"? Did they ever set some sort of goalpost limiting posting to third-party sites? It's only an inconvenience to me, but for some people making money from their own websites (people who have paid PB for their service), this is pretty big stuff. Years of content smashed by PB's truly boneheaded move. These people's livelihoods may also be at stake. As for watching businesses burn to the ground, well, any business offering a free service and then, more than a decade later and with more than 100 million clients, realizing they actually need 400 bucks a year per client to just break even, deserves to burn to the ground. Any business abusing the trust of their clients by changing their business model in such fashion with no prior communication deserves to burn to the ground. If you can only offer a service at more than ten times of what your competitors charge, maybe you should look for a different business. Am I going to keep using PB? Hell no! Even if I did intend to pay them 400 bucks a year, as 11bee said, how can I be sure they'll be around in a month or so? A breach of trust of this magnitude may drive away all of their clients and I'd be SOL because PB might fold. And who's to say they won't want 800 bucks in a week? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thommo Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Yeah, they broke the number one rule of good business operation, which I always try to remember with my business and job: "Under-promise and over-deliver" That they did was over-promised by providing free photo-sharing iniially. then took that away and added a fairly hefty fee. Bad move. I've founds under-promising and over-delivering costs you a bit of money in the short-term, but wins you loyal customers, a good reputation that spreads by word-of-mouth, and more turnover in the long-term. They just got their business model arse-about from the get-go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 18 hours ago, FluffyK said: Oh, and - by the way? Looks like YOU exceeded your limit too. How about that. Yes, but my world didn't come crashing down around me. I still have my job, my house is still standing and my kids are all fine. Losing pictures on internet forums is my absolute least concern. Some of you are just taking this way too personally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) ^ Allow me to quote myself here: 17 hours ago, ChernayaAkula said: <...> It's only an inconvenience to me, but for some people making money from their own websites (people who have paid PB for their service), this is pretty big stuff. Years of content smashed by PB's truly boneheaded move. These people's livelihoods may also be at stake.<...> It's cool that you still have your job, but some people relying on PB's service for their jobs are now SOL. Let's take Flying Leathernecks as an example here. Let's say you paid for a full print run of a couple of sheets, and they come back in the wrong colours. How would you feel if they told you go pound sand because they "updated" their ToS overnight without any prior information to now include "slight variations in colours are permissible and don't establish a cause for a refund"? Or if PayPal suddenly yanked up their fees to 50% of the transaction value? Actually, regarding the legal side of all this, I'm fairly sure "pacta sunt servanda" is also a basic principle in US law. What's not clear is whether what PB did to their customers, paying or not, IS a breach of contract. By my understanding it is. If I paid for hosting images for a certain time and the provider stopped doing that, I'd be entitled to compensation. Edited July 2, 2017 by ChernayaAkula Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 21 hours ago, habu2 said: If PB was smart they would have scripted a task that redirects you to the PB page containing the linked image instead. That way they get their ad stream and all the hotlinked images can still be viewed indirectly instead of missing in action, ruining forum threads. In that regard, you can still right click "The Meter", and then click on "Open image in new tab" - that will take you to the PhotoBucket site to see the original image --- IF the poster hasn't already closed his/her account.. Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, Dave Roof said: Yes, but my world didn't come crashing down around me. Great (really). You denigrate millennials, but you are the one, intentionally or not, coming off as somewhat self centered. Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bobo1953 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Dave Roof said: Yes, but my world didn't come crashing down around me. I still have my job, my house is still standing and my kids are all fine. Losing pictures on internet forums is my absolute least concern. Some of you are just taking this way too personally. dave. it's hard to avoid to end up in a quarrel with you. you're a marine, it seems, you should know better what it is "taking this way too personally". this move by p.b. ain't doing anything personally: it involves a whole lot of people, and they have the right to defend themselves from an act of aggression. personally and collectively, because if i kick your fellow marine in the butts, the whole platoon will do the same to me as a single man/woman. right? sure there are much more serious and severe things in life, but this is a forum of modelers, not politicians or businessmen and not of homeless or dropouts either, we're just a group of people who build small plastic things, and whose models' pictures have been kidnapped. so i don't think we're taking it too personally. bobo. Edited July 2, 2017 by Bobo1953 bad word Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I gave up on PB long ago because of their slow clunky unintuitive interface and the excessive amount of on-site advertising, so I personally didn't lose anything. PB was dead to me a long time ago. What I DID lose, and what really upsets me, is the impact it has had on this forum as a RESOURCE Center. Not being able to view all of those PB-linked images makes those threads virtually useless to me as a modeling resource. This to me is a Major impact to my hobby. There are a lot more serious issues in life that threaten to bring the world crashing down around me. PB isn't one of them. But they did piss me off in a Very Big Way...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) An observation if I may... When viewing a thread here that contained many many many PB-linked images I noticed the page took a long time to load, as every time there was a hot-link to a PB image there was a delay as (I am assuming) PB's servers had to detect a hot link and then redirect that link to their ransomware image. Hmmm, I can only imagine the extra load this is putting on PB's server resources. Imagine what would happen if many many many people made many many many threads and put many many many hotlinks to many many many PB hosted images, and many many many many many many people then opened those threads.... Not that I would ever condone such a retaliatory tactic. Edited July 2, 2017 by habu2 stupid autocomplete..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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