jabow Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Kinda Off Topic, but for Aviation History buffs, maybe not, Anyway, tomorrow night on the History Channel, they'll show a lost photo of 2 Westerners in the Marshall Islands that look very much like Amelia Earhart and her Navigator, Fred Noonan at the same timeframe as her disappearance. Also an trap covered object on a Japanese ship that's very close to the fuselage length of her aircraft. ??? Worth a watch and maybe record??? Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 That photo was in the news last week. Here's an article at NBC, which appears to have some interest in the story... The Smithsonian isn't convinced... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nerdling Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I've been seeing lots of evidence that points to that photo not having anything to do with her at all. From what I have read, the picture isn't newly "discovered". It has been known about for a few years. Also if they were taken prisoner, why aren't there any Japanese soldiers in the photo at all. Also the females hair appears to be longer then other pictures of her taken during her flight. The male that is supposed to be her navigator has the same complexion as the islanders in the picture. It also looks like he has his hair parted on the opposite side that Fred Noonan did. Lots of little things point to it being just a random picture and not her at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Like any other conspiracy theory, one has to ask, how are there no records or testimony of this from the countless people that would have been involved. I guess they hopped on the UFO which kept them in suspended animation till they were returned to assassinate JFK and plant explosives in the World Trade Center. Regards, Murph Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 This is all just old news being touted as "new" by media outlets to generate advertising revenue via website clicks..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 10 hours ago, jabow said: that look very much like Amelia Earhart and her Navigator, Fred Noonan It really doesn't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 11 hours ago, Murph said: Like any other conspiracy theory, one has to ask, how are there no records or testimony of this from the countless people that would have been involved. I guess they hopped on the UFO which kept them in suspended animation till they were returned to assassinate JFK and plant explosives in the World Trade Center. Regards, Murph Actually, the UFO took them to the Delta Quadrant and left them there in suspended animation. I would think if the Japanese had captured someone as famous as Earhart and Noonan, they would have made a very public spectacle of trying and executing them for spying, or at least using them in some way, to score political points. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, MoFo said: It really doesn't. Huh??? Uh, I really haven't met either one of them; but, from period photos they sure looks like them to my Mk. Is!! Ditto the experts that NBC dug up!! Edited July 9, 2017 by jabow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) If you need a photographic expert to interpret who is in a photo, then that photo does not "look very much like" that person. Edited July 9, 2017 by MoFo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 45 minutes ago, MoFo said: If you need a photographic expert to interpret who is in a photo, then that photo does not "look very much like" that person. I hear ya; but, very few people alive today knew Fred Noonan well enuff to say either way. Hopefully, the 'Expert' would be looking for altered photo and such. Period photos of Noonan and the photo in question look EXACTLY like him. Fuzzy as it is. The area of the woman just doesn't show enuff to say for sure. Her hair style does resemble that of Emelia Earhart. Hair DOES grow. The body size and weight looks about right, too. What I find interesting, photos of BOTH at the same time in that part of the world, just has to be very, very, very slim indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) I'm buying it, 'hook line and sinker'!! Japanese communicated via their cryptic messaging as a test to see if the US had broken their code!! The US didn't bite!! Fred and Amelia were EXPENDABLE!! US knew exactly what happened to them and where they were!! Just as the US Navy aircraft knew EXACTLY where the Japanese Fleet was at Midway!! Not just SH luck as the story they spun!! Not the ONLY time bad things happened JUST to keep secret about Code Breaking!! Manchester England?? bombed by Germans with NO defense what-so-ever!! Same reason Japanese didn't play up Amelia and Fred's capture!! It was a TEST!! And, as it turned out, both sides were satisfied with outcome!! Bo Edited July 10, 2017 by jabow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Yeah... so about that. Whoops. http://yamanekobunko.blog52.fc2.com/blog-entry-338.html Quote the photograph was first published in Palau under Japanese rule in 1935, in a Photo book; Motoaki Nishino (Nishino Masaaki ), " Umi no seimeisen: Waga nannyou no sugata ." (Ocean life line my south ocean figure), Palau: Futabaya Gofukuten, 1935. You can even flip through a digitized version of the original book courtesy the National Diet Digital Library Collection: http://dl.ndl.go.jp/info:ndljp/pid/1223403/99?itemId=info%3Andljp%2Fpid%2F1223403&contentNo=99&__lang=en Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 5 hours ago, MoFo said: Yeah... so about that. Whoops. http://yamanekobunko.blog52.fc2.com/blog-entry-338.html So not only did they kidnap Earhart, they had a time machine too. The Philadelphia Experiment was realzz! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 44 minutes ago, Murph said: So not only did they kidnap Earhart, they had a time machine too. The Philadelphia Experiment was realzz! LMAO. that's exactly what I was thinking!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Anyone care (or dare) to translate "Gofukuten" in MoFo's quote ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LanceB Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 "Gofukuten" means "Dry Goods Store". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Just a couple of observations. The "book" that the original photo is supposed to come from is in a hole punched album format. As an album, could pages have been added over a period of time as new photos were taken? As far as the program goes I came away with two impressions. One, the consisttancy of the first person interviews. Granted, eye witness accounts can be highly inaccurate, however the stories from a number of unrelated people from different locations ran pretty constant. Second, the artifacts found on the coral island where the plane supposedly crash landed. How and why were these items there? I thought the piece of rolled metal was very interesting. Several comments have been made about how could Noonan have been that far off on his navigation. Go back and listen to the explanation given in program. Anyone who has ever really had to "dead reckon" navigate would accept the error as being highly possible considering the unexpected weather conditions. Not sure about this being the answer to the mystery, but the premise and body of evidence seem credible to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 1 hour ago, HistnScale said: Just a couple of observations. The "book" that the original photo is supposed to come from is in a hole punched album format. As an album, could pages have been added over a period of time as new photos were taken? As far as the program goes I came away with two impressions. One, the consisttancy of the first person interviews. Granted, eye witness accounts can be highly inaccurate, however the stories from a number of unrelated people from different locations ran pretty constant. Second, the artifacts found on the coral island where the plane supposedly crash landed. How and why were these items there? I thought the piece of rolled metal was very interesting. Several comments have been made about how could Noonan have been that far off on his navigation. Go back and listen to the explanation given in program. Anyone who has ever really had to "dead reckon" navigate would accept the error as being highly possible considering the unexpected weather conditions. Not sure about this being the answer to the mystery, but the premise and body of evidence seem credible to me. Agreed on all accounts!! Until someones finds her A/C or something better, I'll stick to this as facts. Regardless, neither Fred nor Amelia will appear alive to provide their accounts!! The secret that the US had broken Japanese's Codes was FAR more important than finding these two. Interesting that US Navy gave up search after about two weeks?????? I'm good to go!! Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Speaking of the airplane, there was a very brief reference to pilot reports of bombing an "Electra" during the Saipan invasion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Just a brief comment about how historical facts from the local communities are often not even close to facts. Where I grew up I lived on a street that had an area that was known as "high mount" because it was the highest part of the city. The story that was given to me by all of the neighbors as I was growing up was that under what had become the train station was one of the largest buried treasures of Jean Lafitte. Of course this was more than likely a completely fabricated story by someone who had nothing better to do way back when. But it grew to become a sworn story by many of the older people of the area that their grandfather KNEW that it was there but was too scared to go looking for it for fear of retribution. So yeah, I'm sure the villagers remember seeing Amelia. It have to be fact since so many have given their accounts of it. Right? Bill p.s. Also, in that photo the only person that is holding something that could be used as a weapon is the one they say is Noonan in captivity? That makes perfect sense. I don't see anyone that looks like they are guarding anything. Just a group of people standing around on a fishing wharf posing for a pic on an average day. Edited July 12, 2017 by niart17 added second thought Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Bill, I entirely agree with the point you are making about how an "urban legend" takes hold and grows. I also know from personal experience with eye witness statements how key facts can be different among ten different witnesses. What I found interesting about the "native" interviews was the fact that they were reporting events at different times, from different places, and from different islands. The one fact that impressed me was the matching descriptions of the white male and female and the fact that the female was wearing men's clothing. Overall, I'm not saying the premise of the program was right or wrong. There are facts that are disputable and evidence that is not. Probably up to everyone to draw their own conclusions from what they take away from the program. Unless someone comes up with a time machine, this probably remains one of histories mysteries open for debate. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 What need is there to 'guard' these two Westerners??? Where will they go??? How will they hide???? Could be that the Japanese military has reason to stay outta camera view???? The chances of ALL these elements being there in this photo just has to be extremely rare!! 1 in 10 Billion or so???? I wanted to see if photo was doctored in any way. It passed 5 or so test!! The odds that someone missed remembered date and time of photo and ship's presence is far easier to swallow. But in the final analysis, ....... doesn't mean tinkers either way!! B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
niart17 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Ok, I went and looked at the linked photo album book and the photo seems to be very consistent with all the other photos from that book, and not like it was added to later. Point 1, as a matter of fact, there are several pictures of boats and ships that are remarkably similar to the ones in the photo in question and they are placed before and after that photo. Point 2 is the pic in the NBC article is MUCH higher in contrast and brightness than the scanned digital copy. So much so that the "white" complexion of "Amelia" isn't so white in the original. I've found several other photos throughout the album of obviously local women with much lighter skin than that in the original photo. Point 3, how from that picture of a persons back, can it be determined that it's a female? Several of the men in that album have longer hair as well. And finally why would THIS photo of something that surely would have been held as a tight secret be stashed in someone's photo album? I mean the book looks just like something I'd have of a family vacation and/or something like if I'd worked on some remote island somewhere and took pictures of the local activities. There's nothing else in the book that says "this is a top secret stuff happening" Just one photo of a group of people among many other photos with groups of people doing things that would be expected in such a place. Another thing that bothers me with this theory is why wouldn't the modern day Japanese government come out with information that yes, in fact they'd captured her? I mean its quite possibly one of the the world's biggest aviation mysteries of all times, We have had a good political relationship with Japan for a LONG time since and there has been much openness about many other operations and war time secrets. Wouldn't someone in the Japanese government come forward and said, "hey you remember that famous female pilot you guys have been searching for for over 50 years, yeah we'd captured her and thought she was a spy" Why keep that a secret still today? Especially since there's "evidence" they had her. Sorry, I'm not sold on it. Of course I could be totally wrong, but I didn't believe it was really Elvis working at that 7-Eleven and look how wrong I was....oh wait.. Just kidding. I keed I keed. Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HistnScale Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Bill, First I think everyone is fixating too much on the photo and not taking in the full body of evidence that was presented. A good prosecutor reminds the jury not to fixate on a single item of evidence but to weigh the total package of evidence. The picture really is not the sum total of the presentation. The investigators presented a reasonable explanation to how the plane got to the Marshals. The presentation also covered a number of individual first hand witnesses, as previously discussed. The presentation presented a number of artifacts from the small coral island where the plane supposedly came down which could have been linked to the crash. They presented a reasonable answer to what happened to the plane on Saipan. And they presented a first hand statement about the execution of Earhart and Noonan. Even without the photograph, the body of evidence seems to be pretty convincing. As to the current Japanese government not coming forth, when it was clear the war was lost, there was a mass purge of documents and paperwork. Possibly the Japanese were already watching the proceeds in Germany regarding war crimes. If Earhart and Noonan were executed, anyone still alive who was involved has a vested interest in keeping quiet, considering the world court is currently working on prosecuting a 90 year old person for war crimes in WW-II Germany. The answer for the goverment's silence may be as simple as a matter of saving face since the Japanese tend to be reticent about war crimes committed during their occupations. As I stated earlier, did we get a final answer? No, we did not and probably never will. Was the HC program presentation plausable? I think it was and definitely opened the door for further investigation. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MoFo Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 5 hours ago, jabow said: What need is there to 'guard' these two Westerners??? Absolutely none, since the photo was taken at least two years before those two Westerners left the US. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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