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Fellow modelers, Europeans, and international travelers:

 

My wife and I are considering visiting parts of France and Germany.  From prior experience we're big fans of trains in Europe, but our previous adventure was in the United Kingdom only.  When I look for information on train travel in France and Germany, the web offers a lot of different sites, all of whom are trying to sell things, and I think I need some feedback from a real person.  (And if I can't trust plastic modeler builders, who can I trust?)  

 

Simply put, what are your favorite resources to learn about pricing, reservations, and trip planning for railway trips between cities in France and Germany?  We also plan to do a lot of day trips out of cities on local railways, too, and I'm looking to see if any of those are covered by rail passes, too.  Beyond these questions, any other advice is welcome!

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France:

http://www.sncf.com/en/passengers

 

You got the Germany one.

 

Also, if you're so inclined:

http://www.eurostar.com/

 

I have no experience with train travel in France, but in Germany you can expect punctuality, information and clear instructions. There are many classes of trains, and some private operators as well, so googling will be your friend.

Eurostar operates much as an airline - you buy early, you get the cheapest ticket. Please be advised that in what are considered peak hours, the Eurostar will be rather pricey.

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When I visited France, I used the SNCF website directly to book all my rail passes ahead of time for travel outside of Paris.  Within Paris, I don't recommend the pass that allows for unlimited riding of the metro.  It only costs 1.50 Euro (I believe) per trip and the pass was something like 75 Euros.  Feel free to PM me if you have questions, happy to help out.

 

http://www.sncf.com/

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22 hours ago, dnl42 said:

I've gone to the source in Germany: http://www.deutschebahn.com/en/start/.

 

While that, technically, IS the source, their pricing info is on a different website, bahn.com: LINK!

And this, incidentally, makes the biggest problem of Deutsche Bahn all too readily apparent: utter chaos regarding fares! It's quite difficult to get consistent and decent pricing information. Online prices will be different from counter prices will be different from ticket machines. Prices will vary by special offer, depending on what type of train you take, whether you're going first class or economy, if you're signed up for their discount subscription programme (BahnCard), what type of BahnCard you have. In some cases, a second person travelling with you will get other discounts....

It's all rather....

giphy.gif

 

So much for German efficiency! :monkeydance:

 

Generally, the trains are on time. Generally. Some routes are affected by delays worse than others. Some are routinely overcrowded.

 

Do you know what regions you'll visit? It might really be more efficient to just rent a car.

Another option is a Greyhound-style intercity bus. Currently, the largest carrier is FlixBus: LINK!

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A couple of general notes:

 

beware of one day strikes in France.

there was some spoofing on rail websites especially from U S origin searches.  Make sure you are where you really want to be before submitting credit card numbers.

there are  both national and privately owned fast train companies, at least in Italy.  Prices vary wildly so be careful.

when in doubt, a good old fashioned travel agent (even American Express) will get it done.  It's worth a few extra dollars and you can insure that you got it right and get "paper" tickets in advance for your main trip.

 

Local day trips are best done on the spot; your hotel can help.  Lots of English spoken in Germany at the ticket windows, machines are sometimes bilingual .

 

trains are very punctual.  My wife and I made the mistake of trying to catch a train scheduled at 1220 so we got on the train sitting on the same  track at 1217 thinking a few minutes didn't matter.  They do, it was a 1217 train .  If they say 1220 they mean 1220.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Viasistina said:

Lots of English spoken in Germany at the ticket windows, machines are sometimes bilingual .

That's my experience.

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Valuable input from all here!  As near as I can tell, our trip might benefit from a Eurail pass, since we're going to take regional trains on a near-daily basis.  

On 7/23/2017 at 6:58 AM, ChernayaAkula said:

Do you know what regions you'll visit? It might really be more efficient to just rent a car.

Another option is a Greyhound-style intercity bus. Currently, the largest carrier is FlixBus: LINK!

 

I did consider renting a car, but since we're tourists, we're probably going to be in places where parking is difficult to find.  Where I considered it was trying to take a day trip to OP Alpha, although that would be kind of out of our way.

 

You may find your railways frustrating.  But coming from the United States, we're frankly amazed at European rail networks.  When we visited the United Kingdom, my wife was pleasantly surprised how easy long-distance, regional, and local rail transport was, compared to our few options back home.  Since I've studied some railroad and tram history, I was aware of this, but like many USians, she had no idea this kind of thing was even possible in any civilization!  

 

On 7/23/2017 at 1:26 PM, Viasistina said:

beware of one day strikes in France.

 

We actually planned for France's lively organized labor scene, when scheduling.  I told my wife it's as much part of experiencing France as the food and wine!  

Edited by Fishwelding
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parking is expensive, you need GPS or you will get lost, take the train not the bus, you've spent a lot to get here, don't waste time sitting on a bus, go to miniatur wonderland in hamburg, also goo to  sinsheim auto und technic museum, there re others too like the armor museum in munster

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If you're looking for places to go, Deutsches Museum in Munich is just amazing!

 

I found Dresden to be quite interesting. It has a fascinating mix of pre-war, soviet-era, and modern architecture. The Frauenkirche Dresden was quite a sight! Left as rubble until the re-unification, it's now completely rebuilt and stunning.

 

Edited by dnl42
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Even if there were any refugees, you could trust authorities to have kept the train station "in service" all the time. No need to worry here, we´re germany! ;)

 

 

HAJO

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I have been to France and Germany twice, both times using rail passes. Some notes:

 

- Only certain trains will let you use the rail pass. This was particularly evident in Italy

- Some routes will charge you a "booking fee" on top of  what you paid for your rail pass. Therefore it might be cheaper to just buy a ticket.

- In France the trains seem to be packed. In Bordeaux I had real trouble getting out of the place, first of all the wait at the ticket office was crazy and it was hot! 2nd, spaces on the trains were at a premium so when I finally got a reservation the train was packed.

- Bordeaux is a nice place

- Go to Toulouse and stay somewhere with a kitchen. Go to the central market, buy confit duck and Toulouse sausage.

- Austrian trains are really nice, nice seats with power plugs (Go to Austria, a very beautiful country)

- Food at train stations in France is really good. Try Chouquettes if you can.

- If you go to Munich, don't stay near the train station. It is a horrible place. The old market area is worth a visit, great food and architecture.

 

Most of all have fun, see some art galleries, eat some good food and drink some good wine.

 

If I think of anything else, I will post it.

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On 7/30/2017 at 10:48 AM, Murph said:

Sit at the front of the train wearing a conductor's cap and yelling CHOO! CHOO! at the top of your lungs.  It enhances the experience.

 

I suspect my great-grandfather worked for one of Deutsche Bahn's predecessors (probably Royal Württemberg.)  I was hoping to casually drop that into conversation at a ticket window, to see if I could get a discount.  

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1 hour ago, Fishwelding said:

 

I suspect my great-grandfather worked for one of Deutsche Bahn's predecessors (probably Royal Württemberg.)  I was hoping to casually drop that into conversation at a ticket window, to see if I could get a discount.  

 

doubtful, not a lot of sense of humor at times there, also they have tickets dispensing machines,  handy is their word for phone, so  a handy free zone is one in train where you can't yack on phone, using your iphone was $1/min, to the us, buying a ghetto phone of 20 euro and a 15 euro phone card gave me 2 hours of talk to the us

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I've paid special attention to the various exceptions to rail passes, but they seem less of a problem where we're going (Eastern France, Western Germany.)  We need to book seats for TGV, if we don't avoid it, and maybe ICE.  But we're able to make all our trips by regional trains, and I've not (yet) seen where those in France or Germany don't accept rail passes. 

 

Europe's come a long way in integrating train travel.  (Military history buffs may chuckle at that, since interoperability in trains was a factor in past wars.)  But understandably, perhaps, it is still complicated in 2017.  

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As others have posted, you can go to the respective National Railways sites for Germany and France. You can also look at travel blogs from Rick Steves and Burt Wolf. (I highly recommend Rick Steves)

 

Keep in mind that at least in Germany, DB is the national rail company, but there are also private rail companies in certain areas that are considered shortlines or secondary.

 

German people typically tend to be nicer than French people. (I know, we spent 3 weeks in both this last December) If you are going to be staying in a city for more than 3 days, check out airbnb or homeaway for renting an apartment as opposed to a hotel room. If you do rent hotel rooms, try hotels.com. If you rent 10 nights through them, the 11th is free.

 

If you do rent a car in Germany, get the GPS, and be prepared to pay for parking just about everywhere. I would not rent a car if you are going to be in Paris. And if you fly into Paris, there is a train that takes you from Charles DeGaul into town, its the RER B train. However, if you take a cab, beware. Normal cab fair is price fixed between 50 and 60 Euro depending on which side of town you go to. We had a guy accost us, and wanted 70. He was probably like an Uber or something, but I didn't want to chance it.

 

Youtube has lots of good videos as well.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/23/2017 at 6:58 AM, ChernayaAkula said:

So much for German efficiency! :monkeydance:

 

After action report:

5bW9TQW.jpg

 

Both Deutsche Bahn and France's SNCF did an excellent job.  Very few and small delays, reasonably clean (they're public transport after all) cars, friendly officials, and fairly predictable service overall.  We traveled via a pass that I thought was reasonably priced, but somewhat in line with what you said, ChernayaAkula, DB didn't always have consistent information concerning routes on the web.  But my wife and I could hardly complain; our country lacks such convenient railways, so it was marvelous to us.  

 

I'm glad we didn't rent a car.  When riding shuttle buses the highways were frequently crowded and drivers seem no better than in the U.S. (speed up/slow down for no reason, little regard for fast lane/slow lane, odd and careless lane changes, road rage, and so on.)  The traffic slowdowns looked positively savage in some places, especially when viewed from a fast train.  At most places that seemed interesting, parking looked hellish.  I was surprised that in the old parts of cities, and even in areas marked pedestrian-only, some drivers seemed determined to drive through thick pedestrian crowds, which was miserable.  (I pointed out to my wife that there seemed nowhere safe from being run over by a Peugeot!  Even as we climbed cathedral tower steps I instinctively glanced around for that menacing lion logo!) They moved slowly at best, and local pedestrians became so obviously irritated I would fear for the paint on the car.  

 

I didn't find the French less friendly than Germans, although I think they were a bit less confident about speaking English.  I found the more I smiled or chuckled at my own broken French, the more they warmed up and were happy to help.  For roughly sixty years, Western Germans had over a half million U.S., British, and Canadian troops among them, and it seemed everyone there spoke English as willingly and confidently as German.  

 

If I have a gripe left over, it has nothing to do with national customs, cultures, or infrastructure.  It's people flying with too &*$#% much carry on luggage!  

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Thanks for the follow up! I found that people in France weren't as overly friendly as the Germans, even though I speak German, and not French.

 

As far as flying, my family always limits our carry on to 1 backpack each, and usually a jacket or something. However, we do have big suitcases. (the wife and kids packs are on wheels. I'm still carrying the same old sea bag with shoulder straps after 25+ years. I guess I need to get with the times....)

 

Glad you enjoyed your trip!

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8 hours ago, Spook498 said:

As far as flying, my family always limits our carry on to 1 backpack each, and usually a jacket or something. However, we do have big suitcases. (the wife and kids packs are on wheels. I'm still carrying the same old sea bag with shoulder straps after 25+ years. I guess I need to get with the times....)

 

My wife and I have the same strategy: a single, reasonable backpack each mainly to carry something to read or listen to on the flight, INFOSEC-sensitive documents and gear, and some emergency-wear in case the airline loses our big cases.  The cases, containing clothing and stuff we buy there, go in the hold as Boeing, the airline, and probably God intended.  Yes, checking luggage can be a pain and can cost money.  But it's miserable to see people with multiple to-the-limit carry-on cases that slow down loading and unloading the plane, cause fights among passengers, and give the crew a massive headache!  On a flight from Seattle I witnessed a hilariously stupid standoff where the crew finally said to passengers something like "Look, you've all got too damn much luggage in here.  Somebody give us a bag or two to put in the hold, so we can take off."  Nobody volunteered, and instead just looked at each other like a bunch of fifth-graders.  At that point I volunteered my single small bag just to shame others, so the poor crew could get me home!  

 

Totally not surprised to learn that "carry-on shaming" is a thing.

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There are 2 issue: (1) the size of an individual's bag, which is the "carry-on shaming" target; and (b) the number of people using carry-on. A Southwest gate rep once hawked for gate baggage check-in by announcing "Boarding group C means 'checked baggage."

 

While an excessive carry-on quantity and size is clearly the result of personal arrogance and selfishness, they are only a part of that problem. Airlines caused such arrogance and selfishness to be a problem for the rest of us because they now for everything. Southwest has "2 free checked bags" as part of their marketing; Jet Blue does the same with their 1 free bag policy. The number of people with carry-on baggage is exasperated by the airlines' practice of running flights as full as possible. It's rare today to see empty seats. Back in the day, I was one of 2 passengers on a flight from Sault Ste Marie to Traverse City; it was a many-hop flight to Detroit and filled as we went...

 

I travel for business and observe both issues quite frequently. I will always carry at least 1 item, my laptop backpack, which fits under the seat. For 2- and 3-day trips, I have a small duffel that fits under the seat--even the aisle seat--avoiding my roller bag for the majority of my flights. I can then put my backpack in over-seat storage and enjoy the extra legroom. My roller bag will do for up to 5-day flights, but then my backpack is filling my under-seat stowage, cramping my legs. Beyond 5 days, it's not carry-on and goes in the hold, where it will be rifled for valuables and occasionally lost. Oh yeah, that's the other reason to never check baggage unless you have to...

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