jabow Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Rex said: That is because any flaws any kit may have is not a part of the judging. That MAY be true but some flaws aren't worthy of the builder's time. My 2 cents, if that. Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Oh, I agree about that, Bo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 1 hour ago, jabow said: That MAY be true but some flaws aren't worthy of the builder's time. My 2 cents, if that. Bo At the risk of taking this thread in a completely different direction, I must respectfully disagree with you and Rex. Sorry Rex! It all depends on what you want out of this hobby. Some get great enjoyment out of building lesser kits. I built the entire Monogram 1/48 Navy collection, working parts and all, and had a complete blast doing it. In fact, it was more fun than trying to get every little switch and knob correctly positioned. There are some stinker F-14 kits (I'm looking at you old Revell and Fujimi!), but I've built them because I want to document every manufacturer's kit, even if it's a clunker. It was actually kind of fun to see how far we've come in molding techniques. So, every kit is worth building if the builder so chooses, flaws and all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 sometimes its a hard decision, buy a limited run kit that may be gone if you wait or buy a flawed kit hoping for corrections, knowing on some level if you dot buy kits companies wont make them, I felt burnt by the kitty hawk mig-25 that could make no accurate mig 25, I don't even know if there are corrections yet that will do it, and I am still waiting for the other makers to do the 1/48 mig -25 as announced, I ebayed my mig 25 away, the manufacturers rally should hire some of the red line drawers to review kits for accuracy, pay them in money or kits, as for Nats, one thing i learned is you can find almost any kit you want there and at a discount, I can only imagine how cheap some kits were in the days before eBay Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 49 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: At the risk of taking this thread in a completely different direction, I must respectfully disagree with you and Rex. Sorry Rex! It all depends on what you want out of this hobby. Some get great enjoyment out of building lesser kits. I built the entire Monogram 1/48 Navy collection, working parts and all, and had a complete blast doing it. In fact, it was more fun than trying to get every little switch and knob correctly positioned. There are some stinker F-14 kits (I'm looking at you old Revell and Fujimi!), but I've built them because I want to document every manufacturer's kit, even if it's a clunker. It was actually kind of fun to see how far we've come in molding techniques. So, every kit is worth building if the builder so chooses, flaws and all. That is so true, Cuz. However, models entered in Nationals aren't usually built for FUN. Most modelers are in the hunt for GOLD, kicks. Not many Starfix kits entered in any contest, much less the Nationals. Again, my 2 cents, if that. Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 Not a problem, Darren. I also build kits that many wouldn't consider "contest worthy." In fact, I am building a few for the show circuit. Some are early Revell tooling Phantoms, some are the Kitech copies of Hasegawa "old tool" kits, two are Starfix,,,,,,,and three are Eastern Express' poor copies of Hasegawa Phantoms. I am building them for a specific reason, though. I am not after trophies for them, but will pay entry fees to show them off to others. For my own collection though, I am NOT going to build the early Hasegawa Intruders when Fujimi and Italeri did such good jobs on their 1/72 toolings. But, if others want to build those types of kits,,,,,,,,yeah, they have the right,,,,,and if they think they did a good enough job on theirs, and it is better than mine,,,,,,I hope they beat me for the award in the category. But, in the main, unless there is some special circumstance, it will be "best kit of the subject" in my scale and interest area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 2 hours ago, jabow said: That is so true, Cuz. However, models entered in Nationals aren't usually built for FUN. Most modelers are in the hunt for GOLD, kicks. Not many Starfix kits entered in any contest, much less the Nationals. Again, my 2 cents, if that. Bo Hey, is this Bo Roberts from HS? If so, hey cuz! :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Rex said: Not a problem, Darren. I also build kits that many wouldn't consider "contest worthy." In fact, I am building a few for the show circuit. Some are early Revell tooling Phantoms, some are the Kitech copies of Hasegawa "old tool" kits, two are Starfix,,,,,,,and three are Eastern Express' poor copies of Hasegawa Phantoms. I am building them for a specific reason, though. I am not after trophies for them, but will pay entry fees to show them off to others. For my own collection though, I am NOT going to build the early Hasegawa Intruders when Fujimi and Italeri did such good jobs on their 1/72 toolings. But, if others want to build those types of kits,,,,,,,,yeah, they have the right,,,,,and if they think they did a good enough job on theirs, and it is better than mine,,,,,,I hope they beat me for the award in the category. But, in the main, unless there is some special circumstance, it will be "best kit of the subject" in my scale and interest area. I'm almost at the paint stage of the old Revell 1/72 RA-5C. I'm building it just for you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: I'm almost at the paint stage of the old Revell 1/72 RA-5C. I'm building it just for you! lol I have that kit in the stash snd figured it wasn't worth starting... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rex Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I can't wait to see it. I built one of those "back in the day",,,,,,,and umm, one of the other kits of the Vigilante. (one of the "too small" ones, can't remember which) I am one of the few that is glad that Trumpeter did one in 1/72,,,,,I don't care what parts have to be changed to match the decals, I needed a "good one" in my collection for the RVAH slot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 On 2017-07-30 at 9:38 AM, 82Whitey51 said: Prolly cuz it's the "IPMS USA National Convention"...now if you Canucks and Frogs would get it together and throw an "IPMS Canada National Convention" I bet you'd see a lot of 'Muricans trek North for it. We do, we call it the Western Canadian Regional Model Contest (IPMS) and we alternate locations between Edmonton and Calgary. Alberta rules, the rest drool, especially those Eastern wieners. 😇 Both the contests are in Aviation museums. One we tug a Lancaster out to make room for the tables and the museum does a four engine run outside. We've had Brett Green, Spencer Pollard, Roy Sutherland, and other notable people in the hobby industry attend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 57 minutes ago, Scooby said: We do, we call it the Western Canadian Regional Model Contest (IPMS) and we alternate locations between Edmonton and Calgary. Alberta rules, the rest drool, especially those Eastern wieners. 😇 Both the contests are in Aviation museums. One we tug a Lancaster out to make room for the tables and the museum does a four engine run outside. We've had Brett Green, Spencer Pollard, Roy Sutherland, and other notable people in the hobby industry attend. Not true. The WCRMC is is not a national convention. The last time Canada had a "National" convention was in 1992 in Ottawa. It was a four day event similar to the IPMS USA show and contest. The Western Canadian Regional Model Contest is a one day event in a similar style to an IPMS USA regional contest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodsgt Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 12 hours ago, jabow said: However, models entered in Nationals aren't usually built for FUN. Most modelers are in the hunt for GOLD, kicks. Not many Starfix kits entered in any contest, much less the Nationals. Again, my 2 cents, if that. Bo I have to respectfully but strongly disagree. This is one of the biggest myths in the hobby. The vast majority of contest entrants are not trophy hunters. They enter contests merely to participate in the hobby, support the sponsoring clubs, and show off their models. They certainly enjoy winning, no doubt, but that's not the goal for most modelers. Steven Brown Scale Model Soup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Budzik Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 I have to agree with Steven on this point ... I've always built for myself ... never for a contest ... the only person I have ever competed with is myself ... to see if I could do it,or do it better. The idea that " models entered in Nationals aren't usually built for FUN. Most modelers are in the hunt for GOLD" while not in the majority, is pervasive enough in IPMS to have dulled my interest in ever attending again. The idea that there has to be only one winner in this sort of hobby is not at all appealing ... and I know that my advocating for an AMPS type system has not made me popular with the IPMS hierarchy. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Paul Budzik said: I have to agree with Steven on this point ... I've always built for myself ... never for a contest ... the only person I have ever competed with is myself ... to see if I could do it,or do it better. The idea that " models entered in Nationals aren't usually built for FUN. Most modelers are in the hunt for GOLD" while not in the majority, is pervasive enough in IPMS to have dulled my interest in ever attending again. The idea that there has to be only one winner in this sort of hobby is not at all appealing ... and I know that my advocating for an AMPS type system has not made me popular with the IPMS hierarchy. Paul I'd love to go to an AMPS style judging system. The problem is time and manpower. We tried it on the local level and we were WAY behind. At the national convention, they would be judging non-stop from the moment the first model hit the table through Saturday night. You could do some kind of a modified system, though. They could have an initial, base criteria. If a model doesn't meet that criteria, it doesn't get judged. At this year's Nats, I saw quite a few that wouldn't have met a base criteria. Of course, this would be even more controversial than going to AMPS style! I agree with you, though, that only having one winner is frustrating to for those who have really, really good models but don't get recognized. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Budzik Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 "they would be judging non-stop from the moment the first model hit the table through Saturday night" Precisely ... because your judging against a standard ...not other models so you can start the minute a model hits the table ... This bologna where somebody with a piece of junk wins a first place because there were only two models in the class, while twenty modelers in a well represented class, all building something much better, get squat. You tell me the value of a first place award in a system like that ... in my book it's meaningless. I think the time argument is really getting old ... as you pointed out, there will be plenty of models that don't even come up to a bronze standard. Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodsgt Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 Thread drift…. I don’t mind the 1-2-3 system of contests. It is what it is, as they say. But, to Paul and Darren’s point, it really is a shame there are only three winners per category. I’ve judged at the Nats often enough to know that there are sometimes five or six excellent models that get scrutinized for the final three awards. The modelers who don't make the cut go home not realizing how close they came to winning. IPMS really needs to consider awarding something akin to Honorable Mentions for those models that come close to placing. Recognizing a larger number of entrants can only enhance the contest experience. P.S. Paul, if one of my models won first place in a category of two models, it would be a meaningless award. Steven Brown Scale Model Soup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scooby Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 12 hours ago, skyhawk174 said: Not true. The WCRMC is is not a national convention. The last time Canada had a "National" convention was in 1992 in Ottawa. It was a four day event similar to the IPMS USA show and contest. The Western Canadian Regional Model Contest is a one day event in a similar style to an IPMS USA regional contest. I know that Chris, it was tongue in cheek. Although it is the closest thing to a regional/national contest in Canada. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skyhawk174 Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 8 hours ago, Scooby said: I know that Chris, it was tongue in cheek. Although it is the closest thing to a regional/national contest in Canada. Oops sorry. I guess it does not translate well in posts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jabow Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 On 8/1/2017 at 8:27 PM, Darren Roberts said: Hey, is this Bo Roberts from HS? If so, hey cuz! :-) Right back at ya, Cuz. Your relatives got chased outta Tennessee, too?? Bo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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