Red Dog Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) Hello gents, Been a while i haven't posted a WIP on ARC, so here's the holiday build: Since the 1/48 revell tornado came out I wanted to build one but not that unique paint scheme included in the box. I convinced a friend to make masks for the lego tiger which appeared around 2010-2012 in airshows and particularily the tiger meet of cambrai which i had the pleasure to attend: Having build a couple Tornadoes in 1/32, the reason i wanted this one is for the possibility to present the model in a reverse thrust situation on landing: this is what i want to have in the ned, albeit with the lego tiger paint to get there I will use the following: Aires wheelbays CMK cockpit eduard exterioer PE fret Masters pitot Brassin wheels 2 PJ pilots The fow two bible about german tornadoes And of course the newly released DNmodels masks for the lego tiger I know i still need to source mainly the carl Zeiss Flir and the IRLS empty casing that make the ECR different from the IDS, so i'll be looking for old scrap parts around the web for these or ultimately i'll scratch them if it comes to that. one of the challenge, beside the build itself which doesn't seem simple, i'll need to open the auxiliary intake side doors, and that is not going to be simple, i'll probably have to cheat a bit on that one Let's glue some plastic :) Edited October 18, 2017 by Red Dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lancer512 Posted August 6, 2017 Share Posted August 6, 2017 (edited) Disregard. I thought I had seen the IRLS and FLIR in the kit when I first go tmy hands on it two years ago. But now I can't find the parts on the sprue. I must have seen ghosts. Edited August 6, 2017 by Lancer512 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 6, 2017 Author Share Posted August 6, 2017 Nope they aren't :) i checked maybe in the GR4 box but i don't see any reason i know that italeri had ECR in 1/48 though. the parts definitely exists. And they probably are in the flightpath kit as well, as the 1/32 FP has at least the LRTS in white metal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fighting Eighty-Four Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 I will definitely be following this! I just recently built that exact kit, and I will tell you it is the most challenging and frustrating kit I have built so far (out of 25). But I think you already know that. But it definitely builds into a really nice model!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 Yep, i guess the problem comes from the way the instructions are made. I'll definitely not follow them. I've seen a lot of problem on WIP but the motivating factor is that indeed it usually turn up in nice models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 (edited) Here is a closer view of the CMK cockpit I'm not a big fan of prepainted PE for cockpit, i feel it removes the fun of cockpit modelling and it's usually hard to get a matching paint reference. Beside, the colour used by CMK seems too blue to me. The rest of the detail seems fair, not up to Aires standard but the tub consoles are already better than the kit's. Matching the CMK cockpit with the Aires nose wheel bay might be fun... The kit seats looks really nice but quite different from the resin ones included in the CMK kit, which a re MB Mk10A and suitable for my ECR project. Are they different bang seats in tornadoes? because the kit's don't look like MK10A My concern was more on the size of the rear cockpit IP and most especially the large MFDs quite visible which seems to be underscaled in the kit. that is most noticeable in the central part Edited August 7, 2017 by Red Dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lancer512 Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 Mk10A (mod) seats built in Germany by Autoflug look somewhat different from the original MB ones, but the headrest not as tilted down as the kit's seats show. They also do not have that tube running along the sides of the parachute pack, as seen on the resin seats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) I can tell ya now that the CMK wheel well set is mostly garbage - there will be a 3/16" gap between the kit fuselage side and the top of the resin as CMKs part does not have the correct angle nor the accurate width to match up. Due to the extensive 'ribbing' of the structural members one can't simply patch the gap. I spent several hours exhorting it to comply but in the end had to return to the kit wells (the nose well did fit after some significant verbal commands/threats). There is a build thread over on BModeler where a bloke tried using the Aires wells and had the exact same dimension issue making me wonder which resin Mfg copied whom. He bravely plowed ahead and cut evergreen strips in tiny millimeters to make two pairs of every single one of those 'ribs' that was short and got them to look decent but Lordy what a challenge. Best of luck in your project Edited August 8, 2017 by metroman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 Mk10A (mod) seats built in Germany by Autoflug look somewhat different from the original MB ones, but the headrest not as tilted down as the kit's seats show. They also do not have that tube running along the sides of the parachute pack, as seen on the resin seats. I wasn't aware of the difference thanks for that. The fox one book shows quite a bit of the german tornadoes with the tubing and therefore i suspect the original Mk10a. there is also a full page of the autoflug seats but not installed in the aircraft. I think i'll leave the tubing as seen on the pictures in the fox one book Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 I can tell ya now that the CMK wheel well set is mostly garbage - there will be a 3/16" gap between the kit fuselage side and the top of the resin as CMKs part does not have the correct angle nor the accurate width to match up. Due to the extensive 'ribbing' of the structural members one can't simply patch the gap. I don't use the CMK wheel bay set, i have the Aires set, but it doesn't seem much better.... I know some builders before me have used the aires set for the hobbyboss kit into the revell build and thay had to patch a huge gap indeed. I double checked and the aires set I sourced is indeed for the revell boxing but it seems it has huge fitting issues on its own, albeit at other places, read more on that later. Best of luck in your project Thanks - by the looks of it i'm going to need it. I took the kit with me on holidays, thinking it would be a nice and easy quick assembly before painting it when i'll be back home. I was wrong :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 8, 2017 Author Share Posted August 8, 2017 (edited) here is the Aires wheelbay story. for the record, this is the revell set, not the one made for hobbyboss Inside details are gorgeous and the kits comes with new gear doors as well Compared to the kit's parts they are a million years better indeed. The resin wheel bays are also just a bit thicker than the kit's part so i suspect the top will need to be sanded thinner for a better fit The problem is that they don't fit at all between the intake support braces, the resin part are too long. see their deformation on the picture above ! Actually the length seems to be correct but it seems Aires forgot one tiny detail: In the kit's the verticals front and rear walls of the wheelbay are actually the lower intake support braces which are glued inside the internal fuselage recess for correct positioning. But Aires molded the walls as well unlike on the kit's part. therefore the resin part is too long and doesn't fit inside the lower intake braces. two solutions: cut the lower intake braces to accomodate the resin wheelbay sidewalls or cut the resin sidewalls away.... One of the two resin side wall has many details on it, the other is blank, so the choice is easy, the blank resin side wall will be cut away and we'll see how it fits. With all that stuff going on inside the fuselage, i'm not sure i'm willing to cut the lower intake braces as i'm concerned the intake might not be in their perfect position anymore and create even more fitting issues further in the build... Edited August 8, 2017 by Red Dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 It's uncanny how the Aires instruction sheet mirrors the CMK sheet. Yes the detail is markedly better, good luck getting them in. BE very careful not to snip off the main landing gear attachments from the kit parts, it's already wobbly enough and with the resin I added sure take a heavy load. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 will do, thanks I cut the rear wall off, sanded the top wall thinner and inserted the resin between the intake braces The key word for this build will be dry fit twice, glue once :) Not bad. No horrible gap as with the hobbyboss version of the aires kit, the small misalignement is simply because i haven't removed the kit's wheelbay locating line inside the fuselage which conflicts with the larger resin wheelbay. That's why dryfit is critical :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
murad Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Go RD Go. got my popcorn following Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Nice - have you checked whether the door retraction arm will work with this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spad Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Yours is a very interesting job! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Thanks Spad, bit of a love hate relation this build :) Metroman, shouldbe good enough, maybe the angle will be a bit busted but i can live with that Hey Moort, thanks for signing in mate !! Having had so many issues with the main wheel bay, and complicating the matter even more with 2 different aftermarkets source needing to clear the front fuselage internal size, I decided to be extra careful with the installation of the nose wheel bay from Aires and the cockpit from CMK. The resin pit has about the same height and size overall than the kit's part so no big deal there. But the height of the front wheel bay resin part is a bit 1mm higher than the pit parts. I therefore expected 1mm of conflict that would prevent me to close the fuselage. And indeed it would. Although the kit's wheelbay doesn't have ceiling details which are moulded on the floor of the cockpit, the resin part does have the top moulded and that's probably the reason why the whole part is higher. You can't thin the top so you can only sand the bottom part by at least 1 mm to ensure a tight fit inside the fuselage with the cockpit. If you don't do that no way you can close the fuselage. Luckily not too many details are lost in the process. I'm really surprised Q&A guys from so experienced companies in aftermarket can let pass things like that. Or else there was no Q&A at all... Another issue of mating the two different origin after market parts is to ensure that the cockpit rest at the right spot on the wheel bay part. Both have a step and that step must be located spot on for the cockpit to be at the right position in the fuselage, it wasn't with the default placement. I had to back up the step on the resin pit floor by 2-3 mm to ensure correct placement coming dangerously close to sand through the cockpit floor under the pilot. Beside misplacing the resin cockpit in the fuselage not doing so may create critical issues around the three part junctions at the nose lower fuselage. Any misalignement here will not only create an issue for the nose but more critically for the side aft fuselage parts that will need to be glued later on. So that point really needs to be checked for correct alignement before gluing anything. To help placing the cockpit in the fuselage i then glued some supports from leftover resin parts Then the front fuselage can be one last time dry fitted and both the aft fuselage walls tested as well on: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aigore Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 That's some really good modelling there! Fighting the Aires resin usually pays in the end tho :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Red Dog said: I'm really surprised Q&A guys from so experienced companies in aftermarket can let pass things like that. Or else there was no Q&A at all... That right there sums up Aires - never worth the hassle. I learned out of all my time with my Tonka that CMK also draws from the same pool of hacks to make their stuff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 Well I hardly had problems in the past with Aires. Maybe adjustment issues but most of them were induced by lack of careful planning from modellers who thought that casting blocks are part of the cockpit they are trying to install ... This issue here is blatantly overlooked by Aires. they probably converted one version of this aftermarket from one kit's brand to another. I'm not into doing lego, i accept fitting issues because i believe these are part of the hobby. I'm too old for snap on kits :) so i'm a pretty happy Aires customer. And in the end, even though it was more work, it's still in the kit and it still beats the kit's parts 1 to 10. So as far as i am concerned, it was worth it - rejoigning Aigore commen'ts :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lancer512 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Nice job with the resin parts. This thread is becoming a great source of information. I really like your way of showing the problems and how you've solved them.. Have you been able to check how the upper fueselage deck fits? Also, what are you going to do to with the fin base (around the heat exchanger)? The kit's part has an awkward shape, that does not look close to the real thing. I am thinking about using parts of the HobbyBoss or Italeri kits as the base to cast a new resin part fior that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) Quote Nice job with the resin parts. This thread is becoming a great source of information. I really like your way of showing the problems and how you've solved them.. Have you been able to check how the upper fueselage deck fits? thanks, that's what i believe should be WIP for :) too soon to tell, the rear seems to be fine, although i had the right side intake trunk badly warped. dryfit of the top plate seems to be ok, the side walls are not flush but nothing a bit of glue can't overcome. the front though is going to be more sport. but the core of the issue won't be the top plate imho but rather the intake top part. The sidewall of the rear fuselage are really opening up and i volontarily didn't glue them yet to the intake trunk support parts. I have at least 3-4mm opening in there. Lots of constraint will be needed to glue them in place. On the other hand if i glue them tight, i feel it won't be flush with the forward intake wall as the intake trunk will conflict. that's basically the reason why i didn't glue it yet. i want to ensure correct placement at that sensitive point where 4-5 parts will need to be aligned together. Quote Also, what are you going to do to with the fin base (around the heat exchanger)? The kit's part has an awkward shape, that does not look close to the real thing. I am thinking about using parts of the HobbyBoss or Italeri kits as the base to cast a new resin part fior that. Haven't noticed it yet. Any picture? Edited August 16, 2017 by Red Dog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Red Dog Posted August 16, 2017 Author Share Posted August 16, 2017 two major mistakes in the Revell instructions have been spotted: The first one is easily spotted and you can't actually do as the instructions tell you because luckily the parts have alignement notches preventing that Step 15of the instructions have parts 39 and 40 swapped. They tell you to install part 39 on the left and part 40 on the right but if you do so the pin for the pylon alignement brace are pointing backward while they should be pointing forward. so part 39 goes on the right side of the fuselage and part 40 must go on the left side of the fuselage: that's how revell wants you to glue them (the nose of the aircraft is on the bottom of the picture that's the correct way to do it. Basically the pin for the pylon brace must point forward The second issue is a hell harder to detect and honestly i almost fell into that trap, it's on the flaps Step 45 tells you to glue part 107 and 108 together and 109 and 106 together for the otherwing. first i wouldn't do that. Its way easier to build the while flap, fill that gap between the top and bottom flap part with putty and clean with nail remover while the putty isn't dry and once the flap is assembled, add the thinnier 108/106 pieces which are the fowler flaps support. the issue in the instruction is that they have these fowler flaps support swapped (108 & 106) at step 45 and if you follow the instructions, you will glue them inverted. I really couldn't figure it all out until i checked real life pictures of the flaps. so glue 107 with 106 and 109 with 108 and not 107 with 108 and 109 with 106 108 and 106 are identified with the red arrows. So my advise: - build the flaps first with all three pieces (bottom plate + 2 top plates) - clean that joint between the two top plates - sort out the fowler flap extennsions making sure that the top part is flat (inner part must be curved) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lancer512 Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Red Dog said: Haven't noticed it yet. Any picture? Sure. Compare this with pages 112 and 113 in the Fox Two book. On the kit parts, there is a visible bulge starting just below the heat exchanger intake. This should blend in smoothly towards the leading edge and front of the dorsal fin. Edited August 16, 2017 by Lancer512 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JayBee Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Really nice work! There is a pinned WIP on Britmodellers forum about the Revell Tornado, maybe helpfull how to fix some of the problems the kit has. Push Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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