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Bobo1953

u.s.a.f. h-21 arctic rescue w/white rotor blades?

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Bobo1953   

hi guys and gals.

i'm here again with one of my favorite obsessions: colors.

i'm building italeri's 1/72 h-21 in s.a.r. arctic livery.

 

instructions call, specifically on the u.s.a.f. arctic rescue chopper, for white rotor blades, probably, but it's not clear, with F.S. 37200 gun metal leading edges, and as for the tips, one each green, red and yellow.

rather odd...

 

now, i made a in depth search on the web and did find some army shawnees that actually have without any doubt the upper surface of the blades white.

as for the usaf, i saw many shades, some quite light, but none that can be called white for sure, also because the helo is generally seen from the ground level and although the rotors are slanted downwards, they are obviously never at an angle that allows anything better than a tangent sight.

the army has some pics of h-21s taken inflight from above, so there is no doubt.

what i fear is that italeri could have taken this white oddity from army photos and then transferred them to their u.s.a.f. shawnee just because it's a strange peculiarity and the kit would become more attractive for modelers.

after experiencing so many incomprehensible mistakes even by the best ones, i have become quite wary with kit producers.

 

in a ipms review of the 1/48 italeri kit, the author, patently a pro, built his u.s.a.f. rescue h-21 with the traditional black, yellow tipped, rotor blades.

will riepl on internet modeler did the same with the 1/72 little brother.

thence my doubt and hesitation.

all advice on the subject is most welcome. thank you all.

best ciaos, and happy modeling! bobo.

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Bobo,

  You should really get this book if you want to know everything about the H-21: https://www.amazon.com/Piasecki-H-21-Helicopter-Illustrated-Designer/dp/1425137075/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1502078501&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=the+piasehcki+H-21+helicopter

 

This photo is from the book and clearly shows white rotor tops on USAF H-21s:

 

USAF H-21

 

Hope that helps.

     Ray

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Bobo, it appears that at least some of the Air Force arctic rescue birds had light (probably light gray) blade tops; can't make a sweeping statement that they all did. On U.S. Air Force helicopters, the entire tip is not colored. Each blade is assigned a color for maintenance purposes. The blade is usually designated with a thin stripe of color just inboard of the yellow tip. Also, on H-21's there's a stripe of the same color just inboard of the vertical hinge on the rotor head. Canadian rescue H-21's apparently did color the entire tip in the blade color. HTH

 

Mig

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Bobo1953   

most dear ray -rotorwash- and rob -mig.

sorry for the delay but we're on different sides of the pond.:wave:

i have no words to say thanks to both of you.:cheers:

-ray, the book must be beautiful, but it's really expensive here. i will take for good your words and the pic you posted. thank you very, very much.

-rob, thank you so much for the precise reference: it means that -for once- italeri was having no strange trip while compilating those instructions which, now, i will follow by the book.

it's great to be part of such an horde of experts, and i wish that in my little measure i could have helped somebody, as everybody's yearning to help me.

thanks to you all and happy modeling!

best ciaos, bobo.

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FM-Whip   

Despite being written by two general officers, the H-21 book is in my opinion poor in quality.  It appears to have been printed as a vanity press sort of project.  The most obvious thing is the poor quality of the paper stock used which directly results in poor reproduction of photos.  Also this book has a proliferation of spelling errors and could have used a serious editing.  Unfortunately it's pretty much the only game in town as far as English-language books on the H-21.  If you have to buy it get it at the least expensive source that you can find..

 

John Hairell

tpn18@yahoo.com

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KursadA   

Just a reminder that I will be releasing a new decal sheet for the 1/48 Italeri H-21 kit with a few more colorful options very soon - the decals are already here, but I am working on the instruction sheet. The arctic rescue scheme is nice, but the Italeri sheet is full of errors, the most glaring one being the size of the national insignia.  The Caracal Models sheet will correct all of these issues and provide more options.

 

h21draft_a.jpg

h21draft_b.jpg

h21draft_c.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, FM-Whip said:

Despite being written by two general officers, the H-21 book is in my opinion poor in quality.  It appears to have been printed as a vanity press sort of project.  The most obvious thing is the poor quality of the paper stock used which directly results in poor reproduction of photos.  Also this book has a proliferation of spelling errors and could have used a serious editing.  Unfortunately it's pretty much the only game in town as far as English-language books on the H-21.  If you have to buy it get it at the least expensive source that you can find..

 

John Hairell

tpn18@yahoo.com

I have a PDF Copy, John, so I didn't know about the poor quality of the paper.  Since my own spelling is abysmal, I guess I failed to notice that as well.  Too bad it's not a better book.

    Ray

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nfiler   

I have a copy of the book and while I would agree that it could have been better, it does cover the subject in considerable detail and the photos are generally pretty decent.

The spelling errors are always a problem with self published stuff like this. Yeah, a good editor sure would have helped, but they also add to the cost and time involved. Helicopter subjects don't sell like Mustangs and 109s so cost probably was a serious consideration for the authors.

If your interested in this bird, then you should have this book.

Norm

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Bobo1953   

afterthought:

hey guys! blades top, white with metal leading edges and partly yellow, partly green/yellow/red colored tips.

...but the bottom IS BLACK, right?:rolleyes:

thanks. bobo.

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FM-Whip   
19 hours ago, nfiler said:

I have a copy of the book and while I would agree that it could have been better, it does cover the subject in considerable detail and the photos are generally pretty decent.

The spelling errors are always a problem with self published stuff like this. Yeah, a good editor sure would have helped, but they also add to the cost and time involved. Helicopter subjects don't sell like Mustangs and 109s so cost probably was a serious consideration for the authors.

If your interested in this bird, then you should have this book.

Norm

 

If the book was self-published, the most obvious thing they could have done is run a basic spell-check in whatever software package they were using, assuming the original was not hand-written or typed on a typewriter.  They could have also gotten friends to check it for free.  If the manuscript was sent off to a publisher the publisher should have done a proof-reading, and/or sent galleys back to the authors for proofreading prior to publication.  Some publishers (especially a well-know military book publisher) don't offer any editorial or proofreading services, so it's up to the author(s) to do that themselves or find somebody else to do it.  

 

John Hairell

tpn18@yahoo.com

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nfiler   

John,

What is your point here? The book is what it is. it was published ten years ago and is still the only published reference oh the H-21 that I am aware of.

What you say is all true, but there are always the could have, should have, would have stuff that happens after something is done. I found it very helpful in my drawing efforts and modeling as well. I am not  saying it is perfect, obviously it is not. But at something like $18 it will allow you to know far more than not buying it.

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2 hours ago, FM-Whip said:

 

If the book was self-published,...

I looked up the book on Amazon, they list it and list publisher as Trafford Publishing - so I Googled them and they are indeed a self publishing and print on demand company.

Looks like (here a decade after that 2007 book was published) their lowest price publishing package for a physical book is $700 and includes only "10 Image Insertions". They do have an editing service as part of the $2500 package, "Copyediting Service - up to 75,000 words " on black and white books, and for color books, " Copyediting Service - up to 10,000 words ".

I am feeling too lazy to call them and ask what they offered a decade ago.

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FM-Whip   
On 8/8/2017 at 8:04 PM, nfiler said:

John,

What is your point here? The book is what it is. it was published ten years ago and is still the only published reference oh the H-21 that I am aware of.

What you say is all true, but there are always the could have, should have, would have stuff that happens after something is done. I found it very helpful in my drawing efforts and modeling as well. I am not  saying it is perfect, obviously it is not. But at something like $18 it will allow you to know far more than not buying it.

 

Flogging a dead horse one more time: the book is usable but has issues.  At a minimum they could have done basic spell-checking and proofreading.  And at least in my copy the photographic reproductions are lacking.

 

BTW, there are other published references on the H-21 but they are not in English.

 

This posting was spell-checked.  :-)

 

John Hairell

tpn18@yahoo.com

 

 

 

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