F-15C question -- Hasegawa

[seawinder]

I'm wondering about the small fins, each of which is located in the bottom center of each engine, slightly aft of the rear-facing vent. I can't see any such protrusions on any photos I've got of F-15Cs. Am i right in thinking they should be removed? Are they perhaps a feature of the F-15A that Hasegawa didn't bother to change when they released the kit as a -C?

 

Thanks,

Pip

[BoeingDriver]

What time frame are you building?  That's the CENC exhaust.  Those "vanes" used to scalp many a maintainer and were removed.  I believe JSDAF still has those but not US jets.

 

If you're removing those, drill a small hole in its place.

[seawinder]

7 minutes ago, BoeingDriver said:

What time frame are you building?  That's the CENC exhaust.  Those "vanes" used to scalp many a maintainer and were removed.  I believe JSDAF still has those but not US jets.

 

If you're removing those, drill a small hole in its place.

Thanks, BD! I'm doing a Massachusetts ANG bird from sometime after 2000. I'll remove them.

[BoeingDriver]

4 hours ago, seawinder said:

Thanks, BD! I'm doing a Massachusetts ANG bird from sometime after 2000. I'll remove them.

 

Yep, removed.

[Murph]

They went away in the early to mid 90s, along with the tailhook fairing, and the crew chiefs were extremely happy to see them go.  Once, when I was hopping to a spare, the crew chief prepping the spare jet ended up at the hospital to get stitches in his back after getting gashed by one of those things.

 

Regards,

Murph

[F4DPhantomII]

While being a mech on the F-100D back in 1967 I got a head wound from one of the Main landing gear doors,not scalped but it bled bad. After aircraft parked they would gun the engine before shutdown as I was putting chocks on main wheels.The lurch caused me to jump and I hit the door.It only happened the one time mind you.

 

 

[Mizar]

the more I read about this modifications the more I feel the need of having a proper MSIP II reference guide posted up somewhere

[seawinder]

1 hour ago, Mizar said:

the more I read about this modifications the more I feel the need of having a proper MSIP II reference guide posted up somewhere

Totally agree. I've got the Wolfpack MSIP II set, but their instructions leave a lot to be desired. I still can't decipher from their photo labeled D where the GPS antenna (part 14) is supposed to be located.

[Jonathan_Lotton]

17 hours ago, seawinder said:

I'm wondering about the small fins, each of which is located in the bottom center of each engine, slightly aft of the rear-facing vent. I can't see any such protrusions on any photos I've got of F-15Cs. Am i right in thinking they should be removed? Are they perhaps a feature of the F-15A that Hasegawa didn't bother to change when they released the kit as a -C?

 

Thanks,

Pip

They're called saber drains, for the reasons Murph explained.  Just shave them off, smooth it down and drill a small hole there. 

[Murph]

4 hours ago, Mizar said:

the more I read about this modifications the more I feel the need of having a proper MSIP II reference guide posted up somewhere

 

3 hours ago, seawinder said:

Totally agree. I've got the Wolfpack MSIP II set, but their instructions leave a lot to be desired. I still can't decipher from their photo labeled D where the GPS antenna (part 14) is supposed to be located.

 

First off, it was just MSIP.  MSIP I was a paper program that never made it into the fleet, as a result all jets were brought up to MSIP II standard, so every single piece of documentation for the pilots and maintainers identified it as MSIP.  To modify a kit to a MSIP jet is extremely easy, just replace the ACS on the lower left side of the instrument panel with a PACS (TV tube) and you're done.  The rest of the mods were internal.  It did add the capability to carry the AMRAAM (which would mean possibly swapping out the underwing missile rails) but that didn't happen till several years after MSIP jets were in service.

What leads to confusion are the parallel modifications to the jet that were not part of MSIP, but which get lumped in there by modelers because they generally happened at the same time.  The chaff/flare dispensers fall in that category as do the additional antennas added just aft of the radome and on the right tail boom along with the modified formation strip light.  The stick grip was originally the same; it didn't change till the early 90s.  The EGI (GPS) was also a separate program. 

 

This picture shows the location of the EGI antenna:

 

Also, check this LINK It's an F-15E, but it also shows the location.

 

Regards,

Murph

[seawinder]

Thanks, Murph, for the clarification and the picture. I'm mainly a WW2 builder, so every time I venture into the world of modern jets, there's a bit of a learning curve.

[Murph]

47 minutes ago, seawinder said:

Thanks, Murph, for the clarification and the picture. I'm mainly a WW2 builder, so every time I venture into the world of modern jets, there's a bit of a learning curve.

 

No problem.  As I mentioned, it gets confusing due to the concurrent upgrades, the length of time the jet's been in service, and the differences between jets that left the factory with the MSIP mod versus the ones that were done at depot.  Then you have to add in the Guard MSIP A/B models which had further differences due to Guard funding and priorities.

 

Regards,

Murph

[Mizar]

Thanks Murph,just by searching around and checking pics around I have noticed these differences so feel free to correct them ^^

 

Two different antenna fairings mounted on the right tip at the base of vertical stab

ECS exhaust grill removed

Hook fairing removed

Dem saber drains

Blade aerials under the forward fuselage section

AEW antennas mounted in front of windshield and under the fuselage

Instruments panel

Instruments panel is also different and on updated J I/II has some sort of thing which is not present on US birds

GPS antenna ala F-15E

Formation lights

Parent mounting or whatever is called on wing pylons

Battery hole is also different?

Could be wrong but somewhere it was said that those square panels above intakes were also faired or filled over

It seems that the rear part of fairing mounted on left vertical stabilizer is also different

HUD changes like it happened for F-16s and F-14s?

Also exhausts under the fuselage are no longer there?

On A models I've probably spotted three different types of strengthening plates scattered all around them

JSDAF MSIP guess I'll take the Platz one or see if F-15J.com is still working with updated pictures

 

Luigi

 

[seawinder]

Speaking of "parent mounting" on the wing pylons, apparently (going by the Wolfpack instructions), the AIM-120 rails were attached to smaller rails which were in turn attached to the large wing pylon. But what about the AIM-9s? Were they on their own single rail which was attached to the big pylon? Hard to tell from photos.

[achterkirch]

I believe ANG F-15A's and B's had the ALE-58 BOL rail (pictures above) installed on the outside of each wing pylon at that time and then the regular LAU-128/ADU-552 combo on the inboards (link below). 

http://www.f-15e.info/weapons/adu552/adu552_03.htm

Edited August 9, 2017 by achterkirch

[BoeingDriver]

11 hours ago, seawinder said:

Speaking of "parent mounting" on the wing pylons, apparently (going by the Wolfpack instructions), the AIM-120 rails were attached to smaller rails which were in turn attached to the large wing pylon. But what about the AIM-9s? Were they on their own single rail which was attached to the big pylon? Hard to tell from photos.

 

We use the same launcher and adapter for both missiles.

[seawinder]

Thank you both.

 

I've got another question: are the various blade antennas the same color as the surrounding fuselage, or are they a lighter color, perhaps Light Ghost Gray?

 

Thanks again!

Edited August 9, 2017 by seawinder

[Murph]

On 8/8/2017 at 8:36 AM, Mizar said:

Thanks Murph,just by searching around and checking pics around I have noticed these differences so feel free to correct them ^^

 

Two different antenna fairings mounted on the right tip at the base of vertical stab

 

The rounded one came first and was replaced by the "chisel" shaped one.  These were not on D models that left the factory as pre-MSIP jets, just on D models that came out of the factory as MSIP.  They were also not on A and B models; although, Ken Middleton posted a picture of an A model with the antenna on the left tail boom.  I suspect that the tail boom had to be replaced, due to a tail strike, and all they had were E model replacements.

 

On 8/8/2017 at 8:36 AM, Mizar said:

Blade aerials under the forward fuselage section

 

These have changed shape over the years from squarish to swept "shark fin" shapes, probably based on a new manufacturer.

 

On 8/8/2017 at 8:36 AM, Mizar said:

Antennas mounted in front of windshield and under the fuselage

 

MSIP C Models only, as a rule.

 

On 8/8/2017 at 8:36 AM, Mizar said:

Formation lights

 

Right, aft one modified on MSIP C (and some D) models.  ON MSIP A and B models the left, aft one was modified. 

 

On 8/8/2017 at 8:36 AM, Mizar said:

HUD changes like it happened for F-16s and F-14s?

 

The A through D model's HUD has stayed the same; the only minor detail difference is when the "Eagle Eye" scope was mounted, and that was a small bracket added to the right side of the HUD frame.

 

On 8/8/2017 at 8:36 AM, Mizar said:

Instruments panel

 

The instrument panel on some jets has been significantly modified starting in 2015ish, with Jax Guard jets.  The engine instruments and TEWS scope were removed and replaced by a large display for the PAS mod which allows carriage of the Sniper pod.  LINK  I don't know of any pictures available of it.

 

Regards,

Murph

[achterkirch]

Murph are you talking about this?  

http://imgur.com/vLEx6qn

[Murph]

33 minutes ago, achterkirch said:

Murph are you talking about this?  

http://imgur.com/vLEx6qn

 

Yep.  That's the first picture I've seen of it on teh interwebbzz.

 

Regards,

Murph

Edited August 9, 2017 by Murph

[habu2]

7 hours ago, achterkirch said:

Murph are you talking about this?  

http://imgur.com/vLEx6qn

 

Looks like it is mounted at an angle towards the pilot ?

[seawinder]

Let me try again with my question about the antennas. Actually two questions:

 

1. Are the various blade antennas painted the same color as the surrounding fuselage, or are they some other color; if so, what?

 

2. There are three rectangular panels located side/top/side fuselage just aft of the nose cone that I'm pretty sure are also antennas. There's also a circular panel aft of the cockpit. Some photos show them with a much lighter color than the surrounding fuselage, and with DO NOT PAINT stencils. Other photos, sometimes of the same plane, show them as some sort of dark gray. Can anyone explain this?

 

Thanks again!

Pip

[BoeingDriver]

3 hours ago, seawinder said:

Let me try again with my question about the antennas. Actually two questions:

 

1. Are the various blade antennas painted the same color as the surrounding fuselage, or are they some other color; if so, what?

 

2. There are three rectangular panels located side/top/side fuselage just aft of the nose cone that I'm pretty sure are also antennas. There's also a circular panel aft of the cockpit. Some photos show them with a much lighter color than the surrounding fuselage, and with DO NOT PAINT stencils. Other photos, sometimes of the same plane, show them as some sort of dark gray. Can anyone explain this?

 

Thanks again!

Pip

 

1.  when the airplane is painted, yes the antennas will be the same color as the surrounding area.  Antennas can easily crack and will be replaced as needed.  What ever color they are "out of the box" will stay that way until paint.

 

2.  Those are indeed antennas too and you said it, DO NOT PAINT.  Paint barns will mask over that surface.  Most of the time those surfaces just stay the same color as the original color of the antenna when it was installed which is again, what ever color it was out of the box if it was replaced.  

 

But if it doesn't say DO NOT PAINT, the barn will paint right over it.  Some jets may not have those "boxes" installed that control that particular antenna anyway.  In looking at pictures of my old jet, those antennas were painted over every time. 

 

Some "C" model parts are common w/"E's".  Those parts will often have a couple different part numbers in the parts book based on the color.  A maintainer can order a rudder, for example, for a Strike that's for a light grey and has to have it painted.  The next day get another rudder for the same jet that is painted.  Just check your references for what ever jet you're building for antenna color.  

Edited August 10, 2017 by BoeingDriver

[Mizar]

On 8/10/2017 at 0:30 AM, Murph said:

 

The rounded one came first and was replaced by the "chisel" shaped one.  These were not on D models that left the factory as pre-MSIP jets, just on D models that came out of the factory as MSIP.  They were also not on A and B models; although, Ken Middleton posted a picture of an A model with the antenna on the left tail boom.  I suspect that the tail boom had to be replaced, due to a tail strike, and all they had were E model replacements.

 

 

These have changed shape over the years from squarish to swept "shark fin" shapes, probably based on a new manufacturer.

 

 

MSIP C Models only, as a rule.

 

 

Right, aft one modified on MSIP C (and some D) models.  ON MSIP A and B models the left, aft one was modified. 

 

 

The A through D model's HUD has stayed the same; the only minor detail difference is when the "Eagle Eye" scope was mounted, and that was a small bracket added to the right side of the HUD frame.

 

 

The instrument panel on some jets has been significantly modified starting in 2015ish, with Jax Guard jets.  The engine instruments and TEWS scope were removed and replaced by a large display for the PAS mod which allows carriage of the Sniper pod.  LINK  I don't know of any pictures available of it.

 

Regards,

Murph

 

Resurrecting this for a thanks

Sometimes I completely lose track of my post/request especially when the effin ISP keeps me away from the internet :-\

 

Luigi