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1/48 - Sukhoi Su-35 "Flanker-E" by Great Wall Hobby


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8 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

I know you all are asking on When?

But first let me show What. What the actual GWH Su-35S kit will offer to the modellers.

 

Here are some overall views of the CAD’s. Shown is the full complement of weapons. In one version you can see the Hibinji Electronic Warfare pods on wing tips which have not been available till now in this scale. They are a standard fit for live missions so it was an obvious choice for this kits design and they are reproduced in fine detail in the new GWH Su-35S kit. More about them a bit later on.

 

 

GbmPvO8.jpg

 

 

vK4BHcW.jpg

 

 

5xwr6qq.jpg

 

 

Gld8BzN.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is lots more where this came from :), so more in detail views to follow soon.  

 

Best regards

Gabor

Hi Gabor! Is there really one and only one scheme (decal scheme) that will be provided in this kit?

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58 minutes ago, flybywire said:

Hi Gabor! Is there really one and only one scheme (decal scheme) that will be provided in this kit?

 Sorry flybywire, 

I dont really understand your question. Months ago I have posted the side views of the would be markings.  This is what my comment was back in early October:

 

There are basically 3 paint schemes but in reality we have four markings. The reason is simple:

Red 06 was serving in Syria in 2016. After its return at the end of last year, and during modifications the aircraft number was changed to Red 24. This is the way it was shown at this years MAKS show. So you have two aircraft in one here. :D 

 

Red 25 is my favorite with the "Dzemgi Eagle" on its tail. This is the original Hero’s named aircraft inaugurated in August 2016. It has some extras which will be shown later.

 

Blue 24 received the Hero’s name only by accident last summer at the KnAAPO factory. Then it was still Red 24 but on delivery to its home base at Cenralnaya Uglovaya the number was changed to Blue 24. Actually this summer the blue is starting to show the original red underneath it.

 

 

While they all have the standard Blue-grey scheme, as a matter of fact they all differ in the camouflage. Now don’t expect anything great but the pattern of camo colours is painted free hand and the Paint Technology Notes provide a margin of error to the painters. Well in real life each aircraft has an individual colour scheme which differ from each other, some MORE, some LESS.

 

One common thing is that there is minimal weathering on them. There is some dirt here and there but in general they are still clean. So anyone wanting to do the now so popular extra weathered/over shaded/ almost completely burned look will have to wait few years or do one of the early Dark grey birds in the shape they fly today. Some of them lost most of that grey paint and look really horrible now. And yes you can build a Grey bird from the G.W.H Su-35S kit (the way they are flying in 2017) since they have had (most of them) the flare units replaced to the bottom of the sting tail. 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor 

GWH Su-35S 7 S.jpg

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1 hour ago, ya-gabor said:

 Sorry flybywire, 

I dont really understand your question. Months ago I have posted the side views of the would be markings.  This is what my comment was back in early October:

 

There are basically 3 paint schemes but in reality we have four markings. The reason is simple:

Red 06 was serving in Syria in 2016. After its return at the end of last year, and during modifications the aircraft number was changed to Red 24. This is the way it was shown at this years MAKS show. So you have two aircraft in one here. :D 

 

Red 25 is my favorite with the "Dzemgi Eagle" on its tail. This is the original Hero’s named aircraft inaugurated in August 2016. It has some extras which will be shown later.

 

Blue 24 received the Hero’s name only by accident last summer at the KnAAPO factory. Then it was still Red 24 but on delivery to its home base at Cenralnaya Uglovaya the number was changed to Blue 24. Actually this summer the blue is starting to show the original red underneath it.

 

 

While they all have the standard Blue-grey scheme, as a matter of fact they all differ in the camouflage. Now don’t expect anything great but the pattern of camo colours is painted free hand and the Paint Technology Notes provide a margin of error to the painters. Well in real life each aircraft has an individual colour scheme which differ from each other, some MORE, some LESS.

 

One common thing is that there is minimal weathering on them. There is some dirt here and there but in general they are still clean. So anyone wanting to do the now so popular extra weathered/over shaded/ almost completely burned look will have to wait few years or do one of the early Dark grey birds in the shape they fly today. Some of them lost most of that grey paint and look really horrible now. And yes you can build a Grey bird from the G.W.H Su-35S kit (the way they are flying in 2017) since they have had (most of them) the flare units replaced to the bottom of the sting tail. 

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor 

GWH Su-35S 7 S.jpg

Hahaha let me rephrase my statement  a little bit. When I said one paint scheme , I meant exactly the standard blue-gray scheme. Aside from the Bort #s and maybe a little difference in the curves and lines here and there, the birds' eyeview is exactly the same pattern, and not a totally different pattern. I have the feeling that you are going to tell me that the current active Su-35s only sport the schemes ( and there is nothing else out there) that are or will be included in this kit, am I right? If I'm right then I got what you're trying to tell me. If not then I'll link here some pictures from my laptop later on, just for referencing, coz I'm just typing from my cellphone right now.

Edited by flybywire
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If you look back few pages in this thread then you will see that this question was already raised before and answered.

 

The answer is, Yes we are doing the current paint scheme of operational units. Yes, there are few “Grey” birds still around but they were from the first production batch which is not catered for in this kit. Although I have to add that most of them have been converted to what the Russians call the 2016 standard (equivalent of the G.W.H Su-35S kit) and by now the only difference is the well weathered remains of the original dark grey scheme. Not really a modelling chalange I would think. 

 

The excellent Begemot decal provides all the markings if you plan to build one of these Grey early planes.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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I have promised some details so here is the fuselage front.

 

xVc8oxR.jpg

 

Let’s jump into some details on the new G.W.H Su-35S kit. If not deep into the cockpit but at least have a look what is under the windscreen and around it.

This is an area for which I was fighting for. It is very annoying when you get a nice kit and the manufacturer neglects areas of the cockpit apart from the instrument panel and the side consoles. On these two you have all the dials, switches and knobs but the rest is completely neglected.

The problem is that even if it is under the windscreen, it is still visible and a lot of fine details are present here. Have to say that I was not too happy with the G.W.H MiG-29 kit as in this respect it has fallen into the same category as most other makers.

 

My intention was to have a change with the Su-35S kit. A detailed research was made of the real aircraft years ago in Russia. All within legal limits of course. It would have been interesting to have a really close look but Sukhoy and VVS people were not really keen on giving an opportunity for this. After all the aircraft has just entered service and the airframes literally only had a few dozen flight hours in them.

 

So had to rely on some detail shoots from a fair distance away. All sorts of imaginable angles, including taking photos from about 4-5 meters height.  Detailed explanation of all the panels, angles of instrument panel cover, HUD details, all the air vents and the fixing points of the panels were prepared. Sketches were made accompanied with photos. The CAD team perfectly transferred all this into a 3D design. As much as possible was made within the limits of injection moulding technology but I hope all this is on same level with some aftermarket sets. And also provides an adequate and authentic area under the windscreen for the modellers to give it a good paint job (with shades of grey) :) even if it is all black on the real aircraft.

 

9KkVTTI.jpg

 

4tRdZNt.jpg

 

YC4fzYK.jpg

 

UcALYNs.jpg

 

 

Rivet details were included at the very forward end. Here you find two ribs under the cover which connect to the 4 th Frame. On top you only see the 2 rivet lines. The instrument panel cover is made of left and right panels which are fixed at the front with in 2 places and big screws on the sides near the back. On both sides you find tubes for blowing air on the windscreen. On the left side there is an additional round air vent panel. In the middle there is the HUD “black box” which has cooling ribs on its outer sides. At the front there are traditional electronics connectors and a small camera in the centre line. In front of the HUD there is a flat transparent panel (Part E3). This is a mechanically activated “shade” made of “smoked” glass which can be raised to right angle in front of the HUD to give a contrast to the pilot when looking at the HUD symbols in strong light conditions. After the initial production series of aircraft a top cover was added to the HUD to provide another shade. It is now a standard fit on all aircraft.  

 

I tried to incorporate all this under the windscreen. Hope you will like.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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8 hours ago, Janissary said:

Embarrassed to admit that CAD renders excite me orders of magnitude more than the real thing...

You're not alone.

The real aircraft bores me to tears but what GWH are doing with the kit means I may buy one to build just because the detail looks amazing.  

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10 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

If you look back few pages in this thread then you will see that this question was already raised before and answered.

 

The answer is, Yes we are doing the current paint scheme of operational units. Yes, there are few “Grey” birds still around but they were from the first production batch which is not catered for in this kit. Although I have to add that most of them have been converted to what the Russians call the 2016 standard (equivalent of the G.W.H Su-35S kit) and by now the only difference is the well weathered remains of the original dark grey scheme. Not really a modelling chalange I would think. 

 

The excellent Begemot decal provides all the markings if you plan to build one of these Grey early planes.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Hi Gabor! I'm back with the pictures/links I promised earlier. Below are three pictures in different "paint patterns". Please don't mind the jets nor whether it's current or nonoperational because it's going to get us nowhere.  There are just for pattern referencing. Let's just concentrate only on the "patterns".  I completely understood that only those schemes you showed me will be included in the kit, and I also understood that you just wanted to include the current paint schemes of operational units. The 3 look totally different, right? That's exactly what I meant by "different patterns or schemes". Now my questions are: 1. Are there any other paint "patterns or schemes" that can be seen on the current operational units? If none, then I now understood what you meant by - we are doing the current paint scheme of operational units. And 2. (In relation to my first question) Are there any other paint "patterns or schemes" (referencing from the 3 pictures/links I sent) that can be seen on the current operational units, aside from the standard blue-gray schemes you had shown, that will be included in this release? I really tried my best to explain what I had in mind, I hope that choice of word or terminology is better this time around.  :rolleyes:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-57#/media/File:Sukhoi_T-50_Beltyukov.jpg

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/936066/58-ukraine-air-force-sukhoi-su-27/

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/gallery/?gallery_id=56&cur_gallery_id=1112

 

 

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The new G.W.H Su-35S kit provides several alternative options for the modeller. I am speaking of the plastic this time. :) Let’s have a look his time at the engine exhaust.

 

First a full view of the bottom and of the top with two different engine exhaust settings.

 

WT7KOAk.jpg

 

 

sHjUwfc.jpg 

 

 

Two engine exhaust versions are supplied with the kit. One with “open” petals of the exhaust showing it in a static position. Second version is for “closed” petals of a running engine. Either one can be selected, but one can also use both of them. Have a look at Su-35’s taxi from the ramp and often one exhaust is fully closed while the other one is in open position.

 

PZF3AH7.jpg

 

 

eXzbLpO.jpg

 

 

The modeller also has the option for the vectored thrust exhaust to be shown in a rotated position. So you will be able to build it with “hanging” exhaust the way they are seen on static aircraft. Or for that matter rotate it in any desired way, even in independent form. Once again photos show them sometime in different positions when the aircraft is powered up.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Excellent news, I WANT this model! ...when it will be released :rolleyes:

 

Gabor, one more question about the windscreen: what are the two parallel grey lines that were not on the earlier Su 27? They are also present on the Mig 29 windscreen. And would it be represented on the GWH Model?

Thanks for all these news, please give us more! :thumbsup:

 

PZR

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11 hours ago, Janissary said:

Embarrassed to admit that CAD renders excite me orders of magnitude more than the real thing...

The CAD is made to control the CNC machines. From CAD snapshots you can have an idea of the model's accuracy, detail level and options that will be offered but nothing more. How the plastic parts turn out depends on the capabilities of the CNC, EDM and injection machines. What we've seen of the plastic so far looks very good but in general CAD must be taken with a pinch of salt.

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1 hour ago, Laurent said:

The CAD is made to control the CNC machines. From CAD snapshots you can have an idea of the model's accuracy, detail level and options that will be offered but nothing more. How the plastic parts turn out depends on the capabilities of the CNC, EDM and injection machines. What we've seen of the plastic so far looks very good but in general CAD must be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

Thank you, I know, I'm a mechanical engineer, and a professor at that, doing research in CAD :woot.gif:. Sorry, such an alley-oop situation I had to dunk :)

Edited by Janissary
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52 minutes ago, Janissary said:

 

Thank you, I know, I'm a mechanical engineer, and a professor at that, doing research in CAD :woot.gif:. Sorry, such an alley-oop situation I had to dunk :)

I am also mechanical engineer in design department ☺ gearboxes and wellhead valves ☺☺☺

 

And Gabor, when???? And how much???

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Not my scale - but it all looks very promising from an accuracy perspective.

 

Just my six penn'orth..... are the fin intakes different sizes? (it isn't obvious from the CAD images)... and - does it include the seat arming bungee chord?.......

 

su-27%20ejection%20chord_01.jpg

 

(top LH corner behind the handsome pilot) :whistle:

 

Ken (before the hair went grey)

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If we were speaking of a “paper” project, something that exist only in cyber space I would understand all the sceptical voices. The fact is the new G.W.H Su-35S kit is almost completely finished and what is more important the real physical plastic form of it has been shown few months ago. So the theoretical questions about CAD detail authenticity and how it is reproduced in plastic are no longer valid. We have the kit!

 

In the months, years that have passed since starting this work there was a lot of discussion and yes sometimes even argument about the way certain details should be handled, reproduced on the final model and of course on the CAD. As a modeller who loves fine details I would have preferred even more, far, far more detail to be incorporated into the design but one has to think rationally and take into account that we are speaking of 48 th scale model. It will have limitations due to its size, due to constraints of injection moulding technology. One would be very silly and irrational not to think of this. So details incorporated into the CAD 3 dimensional model were the ones which are possible to reproduce in plastic. There are many ways to achieve this, like slide mould technology which was extensively used in this project or very cleaver brake down of parts. The kit designers (making the brake down of parts) made an excellent job.

 

I have to remind again that the kit in its plastic reality has already been shown. So we are well over the part about what is possible or not.

I am showing CAD’s to illustrate what the kit will be like, but if modellers look at previous pages then a lot of details of the actual plastic parts have also been shown! And more is to follow.

 

Best regards

Gabor

GWH Su-35S 3 S.jpg

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Hi PanzerG

 

Those silver looking lines are the windscreen heating filaments inside the layered glass surface. The original Su-35 design had this heating system. In fact there were two versions of it used on the early aircraft. As a matter of fact it was not only the two lines in the middle (on MiG-29 they are not in the middle but off-set slightly) but also on the sides of the glass panel too. The electric system was a complete change from the trusted Alcohol based de-icing system used for many decades on different Russian aircraft including the predecessor Su-27 family.

 

The simple truth is that the electric heating system was a failure and as part of Mod 2016 the Su-35 fleet has returned to the good old Alcohol system. Have to add that in Hungarian AF service (and all other WarPac countries) the Alcohol de-icing system was very “popular” :beer4:with (for example MiG-21) ground crews (and pilots) and caused serious headache for commanders!  

 

On the Su-35 for going back to the old system the whole windshield had to be replaced, a stainless steel panel installed in front of the glazing (which sprinkled the Alcohol) almost as in your car. And the Alcohol bottle was added on the inner side of the nose wheel door. Just like on Su-27’s.

The conversion is continuous on early production examples, while all newly built airframes have this feature.

 

In the kit the Alcohol bottle is provided as a choice since some of the schemes offered in the kit still had the old system at the time which the kit represents.

 

fLqwWWz.jpg

 

Hi Ken,

 

Yes, of course the small intake are of different size. And if you would ever consider building this kit (which is way out of your scale) you will find that there is no need to drill them out. They already have the holes and the one on the left has the splitter plate as well.

The ejection seat arming lanyard are far over the capabilities of injection moulding. So sorry they are not there. Very easy to make them. But the attachment points for them on the canopy frame are made on the kit.

 

EbfoSY3.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

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The whole design process of the G.W.H Su-35S kit from my side started with a visit to Russia to see the real aircraft (actually two of them) and to soak in as much information about it as possible. Of course also taking thousands of photos from every possible angle. Looking at the aircraft head on, something was strange. I returned again and again to see what it was. Since the Su-35 has a distinct nose down stance it was not easy to take a full head on of the nose cone from a fair distance to minimise distortion but I managed something. From a side view it is not so apparent since it is difficult to compare distances on a curved surface. But from head on!

 

 

ATAX77H.jpg

 

 

I am sure the Sukhoy designers had a very good reason for this. The two lightning strips on the nose cone at the very top (next to the central long one) are repositioned. They are not at an equal distance from each other as all the others are. These 2 strips are further down the side of the cone and because of this the next two strips are far closer to them. Have a look at the photo I took and it will be clear what I mean. Unfortunately there was no chance to go up with a measuring tape and take exact data. I think I would have been shoot on site or be sitting in custody to this day.

 

How does all this affect the modeller. Well first of all if the strips are in the right place you get a more authentic kit. Second it becomes clear and very apparent when one is painting the kit and compares the demarcation line of the antiglare panel to the position of different lightning strips.

 

 

 

Back from the Russian visit I have checked other photos, as many as possible. And yes the distance of the “misplaced” lightning strips was there.

Please also note that the top and bottom central lightning strips go all the way to the front, stopping just short from the very tip of the nose cone.

 

 

W32fUtr.jpg

 

 

nQQNPLB.jpg

 

 

spJwD4e.jpg

 

 

 

The question of the actual nose cone was another subject of debate for some time. Some experts were insisting that the cone is the same. I have stated that the Su-35 has received a new nose cone. It is not only the absence of the pitot tube on the tip but also the shape. In comparison with Su-27’s a new radar, the IrbisE was installed which has differing dimensions and shape. To support my point of view dozens of photos were shown to the CAD team together with comparisons with the earlier cone. The end result can be seen on the CAD images.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Another detail of the new G.W.H Su-35S kit is the inclusion of the electronic warfare wing tip pods. The given name is Hibiny while the precise classification name is L-256M10. Now days on a real war mission they are a standard fit of the aircraft. It is true that the wing tip stations 7 and 8 are lost so less R-73’s can be carried but the pods have far bigger advantages. The pods were an obvious choice for inclusion in the kit!

 

2DMTsrK.jpg

 

It is interesting that the pods are not symmetrical and I don’t mean the “black boxes” inside (one is the receiver the other the transmitter pod). They are fairly different from the outside too. The right one has a small intake at the base where it attaches to wing while on the left a more traditional shaped intake is located inboard further forward. There are bigger and smaller panels, vents on them but even the position light on the outer side are in different positions. The one on the left pod is further forward. Don’t ask me why. Interesting asymmetry that’s for sure. OK it has to do with the internal arrangement of electronic panels and the small service panel which is next to the position light.

 

cJDsv83.jpg

 

 

MS9ywjc.jpg

 

 

Aj2RNai.jpg

 

 

On a Russian forum a question was raised by an over enthusiastic hardliner comrade on “How did the Chinese G.W.H gain access to the ultra-secret electronic pod????”. Well very simple, it has been shown very openly at different shows, for example at MAKS in Moscow even in an opened form revealing all the black boxes and electronic panels which are inside each pod. (If one is into that sort of thing) One only has to follow internet and watch occasionally Russian TV programs about the Air Force and far more information is revealed completely openly. This summer at MAKS 2017 show Red 24 (ex-Red 06) was on static display with the pods, giving a perfect opportunity to see all its details!!! This was a very big boost in designing the very fine details of the pods for the kit!

What is interesting for a modeller is how it looks like. I think the G.W.H CAD Team made a very nice reproduction of the pod.   

 

 

LChGUD0.jpg

 

 

Please note that the shape of Hibiny pods on the Su-35 are unique to this version of the Flanker. The same electronic system is used on other versions, like Su-34 or Su-30 but they have a different container.     

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Excellent technical descriptons! Thanks! Question is When?

Now Su-35 looks like excellent export product: China, Indonesia, Sudan (?) UAE, and domestic market. Big question is why they sold them to China, after all problems with Su-27 copying issuses?!

 

Did You use Sukhoi released drawings? :-P And cockipt sealant is now grey??!!! :-)

Edited by mario krijan
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49 minutes ago, mario krijan said:

Excellent technical descriptons! Thanks! Question is When?

Now Su-35 looks like excellent export product: China, Indonesia, Sudan (?) UAE, and domestic market. Big question is why they sold them to China, after all problems with Su-27 copying issuses?!

 

Did You use Sukhoi released drawings? :-P

1. Why sell them to anyone? Money?

 

2. Yes, I had the Sukhoy drawings when they were released. Interesting and surprising move it was so many years ago! Wonder why did they publish such sensitive drawings at a date when the very first aircraft were only entering service? By mistake? Don’t think so. If it was a mistake, accidental security leak, then in no time they would have been erased by Russian services from the internet as it has happened in other cases. No, they are still there.

 

The drawings are interesting but they are not scale plans just a sketch showing approx. position of service panels and giving their ID number. The same as you will have painted onto every panel on real aircraft. The numbers are right but a lot of panels are not exactly where they should be! Or not shown at all. The nose cone contour was simply copied from a Su-27 without the pitot. There are some nice cross sections, some good, some not so. For example there is a structural drawing of the nose wheel bay door. It has nothing to do with the Su-35 while the drawing states this, giving “drawing numbers” and all to make it look authentic. The Su-35 door is not a straight rectangle. At the front it is much wider and it gets narrow to the back, details are wrong on this drawing. The drawing is of a rectangle structure probably from an earlier Su-27 family aircraft. Some of the structural drawings are of the prototype airframes. Those published drawings are a mix of different materials and it is probably because of this they were published so freely. The cockpit diagrams are good and if you look at photos of the real aircraft they are almost 100% spot on. The ejection seat is not the definitive production version, there are detail differences.  

  

Remember Zvezda trying to do the PakFa kit? Sukhoy gave them blue prints. As it turned out it was a complete disinformation from the OKB. The drawings had nothing to do with the real aircraft. . . It would have been very silly to expect Sukhoy to give out the most secretive 5 generation fighters detaied plans to a toy company. Be serious!

 

I don’t know if history repeats itself or not. People had “connected” the different drawings to make it into a single piece and believing it is a perfect drawing. One should be careful with this!

 

Best regards

Gabor  

Edited by ya-gabor
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Thanks Gabor, money doing everthing!!

 

Yes i am thinking the same. Those drawings are good for some instructional or for instruction documents, but they are only representation. I am work in design office, so when we gave drawings, we make sure to show everything, but doing some details roughly, or miss some data like module, or dimension over teeth. It is good, it shows flanker, but it cannot be used for nothing.

Whole construction is done by rivetting, some welding is done by soviet messy way, not too much progress over old Flanker. Did you have any info how much this Su-35 is superior to old M, do you have any inisder info about that? Never talk about it, but vertical stabiliser are not wet?

 

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