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1/48 - Sukhoi Su-35 "Flanker-E" by Great Wall Hobby


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Assuming GWH's panel lines are in the correct place for a full production aircraft (saying nothing about the relative depth or thickness), then many of the KH panel lines are fictitious, or based on some preproduction aircraft.

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Man, this latest revelation is a bummer. I’m hoping this is a lemon kit and not the norm.  I have two of their MiG-29 kits and the retooled F-15C- neither of these kits have panel lines like this, which makes me hope this is just a one-off.  Fingers crossed!

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9 hours ago, Solo said:

I think I will cancel my preorder...

Those lines looks really dissapointing.

 

Those lines look much worst in the photos than actual, since the camera need to autofocus on those lines.

If you view the model from the front and not from behind, you don't really notice those lines.  And, after putty and paint, it may turn out okay.

However, my first impression is that their Mig-29 and F-15 panel lines are top notch and better compared to their Su-35 release.

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21 hours ago, Solo said:

This is the same place on Kitty Hawk hull:

 

SDA0iG8.jpg

This one looks definitely a lot better, unless they are fictitious or made for pre-production batch; but even it's a pre-production run, it's still fine because KH kits are meant for pre-production or prototype Su-35s as some experts claimed.

Edited by flybywire
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So, panel lines are inconsistent or too large ? 

Just few of them or all ?

In addition, plastic surface does not looks smooth. Some more and better photos would be very welcome given that I am thinking about cancelling my pre-order.

Edited by galfa
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15 minutes ago, galfa said:

So, panel lines are inconsistent or too large ? 

Just few of them or all ?

In addition, plastic surface does not looks smooth. Some more and better photos would be very welcome given that I am thinking about cancelling my pre-order.

From my photos, there are three panel lines that need to be fixed by the modeler.

1.  The one across the middle of the fuselage, where the line is too deep and wide (3rd pic).

2.  Two panel lines,  one on each side that is perpendicular to point 1 that has inconsistent width (2nd pic) joining point 1.

3.  However, the frontal fuselage has many "fine" details and some lines are too shallow (the gun shield etc.) and in some areas (4th and 5th pic) that require the modeler to deepen the engrave lines consider those details will be gone after primer and paint.  The depth of the lines are shallower than the front fuselage of their Mig-29 series.  (But if you built any Hasegawa kit e.g. 1:48 F/a-18/f, you will need to deepen the lines of some details anyway).  

Regarding point 1 that could be a bad copy of the kit, I actually observe the problem was already there when they posted the pic of the test sprue in the model show (go to page 7 of this post).

4.  The surface is fine and could be due to the lighting when I took the picture.  You will need to prime the model and sand it smooth anyways for a good finish.

 

It just that the CAD details sometimes don't translate well to the real plastic and there are very high expectations for this kit.

 

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27 minutes ago, foxmulder_ms said:

Gabor's example in his build-in-progress topic has it too. 

 

Hi foxmulder_ms,

 

Just a small correction here: The example I am doing work on is a last development sprue (from late 2017),  NOT THE PRODUCTION EXAMPLE of 2018!

I do make adjustments to it, some corrections but also some extra detailing according to my own taste (just as all other modellers do)!

 

Please read back pages of this threat since last summer. I have always said that there is no 100% kit and this applies to this kit too! Unfortunately there are few mistakes left in the kit but nothing serious like faults of the MiG-29 kits more than half a decade ago.

 

In the build threat I did mention that during the construction will show my work on the kit, the suggestions, the tips and colour notes which did not make into the instruction sheet and also the corrections.

 

Have fun with the kit foxmulder_ms! :D  I have a lot of fun working with it!

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
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3 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

 

Hi foxmulder_ms,

 

Just a small correction here: The example I am doing work on is a last development sprue (from late 2017),  NOT THE PRODUCTION EXAMPLE of 2018!

I do make adjustments to it, some corrections but also some extra detailing according to my own taste (just as all other modellers do)!

 

Please read back pages of this threat since last summer. I have always said that there is no 100% kit and this applies to this kit too! Unfortunately there are few mistakes left in the kit but nothing serious like faults of the MiG-29 kits more than half a decade ago.

 

In the build threat I did mention that during the construction will show my work on the kit, the suggestions, the tips and colour notes which did not make into the instruction sheet and also the corrections.

 

Have fun with the kit foxmulder_ms! :D  I have a lot of fun working with it!

 

Best regards

Gabor

Pre-production or not, atleast 1 more person on earth has those issues with the kit (Jeffrey) and when i pointed out and asked about the most prominent panelline issue in your thread you ignored it and continued on with the quite literal sales pitch. It is safe to assume every other kit that has been made so far has these panelline issues too. So pre-production or not is irrelevant in this case. Note, i asked you before Jeffrey posted his pictures.

 

Also disappointingly, instead of Haneto answering in a direct manner he is doing some sort of sales pitch too. Is that particular panelline wrong (or just photography, light etc), was it by design, or was it not? To break down Haneto's comment though;

 

Quote

And please also compare the “deep or shallow” panel lines with real Su-35 photos.

 

After seeing hundreds of pictures, i wasnt aware panellines on Su-35S, or any other plane, could/are varying that much in scale.

 

YqaNdPJ.jpg

 

pyjdPxk.jpg

 

And clearly, it doesnt. That panelline is barely seen, yet alone 10 cm deep in 1/1 scale.

 

Quote

Deepen the accurate panel lines/rivets

or fill putty in all fictional panels lines/rivets, sanding then rescribe

 

Which will be the heavier work load?

Any one who has modeling experience will has the answer at once.

 

I guess, only the issue is that this example goes against its purpose here. In order to fix the spine panelline, one has to fill and rescribe it. Preferably with superglue. Which is decidedly more work than just deepen it. It being deep is not really the issue imho. Panellines can be deep (whether they are too deep or not is a matter of taste), the issue is with sharpness and consistency.

Edited by Berkut
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What the "F-CK-1C" happened with the mold? It looks like they had 2 molds to start with and then combined them. That would explain the weak(er) panel lines on the forward fuselage and the gigantic size panel line between the two. 

 

Haneto: How did you build around that panel line? Berkut is right, that line at 1.1 scale would be as wide as a baby's arm.

 

I'm sticking with my order. I want to see this first hand, by and large the shape and details are better than the "other company's" product.

Edited by Mr Matt Foley
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On 1/16/2018 at 7:35 AM, ching kuo said:

Link = with good photos : https://tieba.baidu.com/p/5457163998?pn=9

it really good kit !!

Again, Look at the photos in this link and those associated with it which include Haneto's build. Their are several sots which do not have quite the depth of the ones from Jeffrey and it appears the kit is still very much worth building. Like I said earlier...I'll take receipt of my order no problem.

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27 minutes ago, Mr Matt Foley said:

What the "F-CK-1C" happened with the mold? It looks like they had 2 molds to start with and then combined them. That would explain the weak(er) panel lines on the forward fuselage and the gigantic size panel line between the two. 

 

Hanato: How did you build around that panel line? Berkut is right, that line at 1.1 scale would be as wide as a baby's arm.

 

I'm sticking with my order. I want to see this first hand, by and large the shape and details are better than the "other company's" product.

 

Almost looks like it is a mold plug, does the back end or front end have anything in common with other airframes? 

 

Certainly not not enough for me to cancel my order.

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Scooby, no. Su-35S is different from any other Flanker. To me looks like front part is machined on different machine, then rest of fuselage. Haneto¨s example also have this deep panel line, but pictures dont show it, onl on one is in corner.

Edited by mario krijan
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Kit reviews are available in some Chinese websites, FYI.

 

http://www.moxing.net/2018/0202/8671.html

http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/wYp4D-sCIwizV6meyMy2_A

 

You can read the text by online translation.

 

Comapred with MiG-29 tooled by another factory, the overall part derail sharpness and fitting is much better indeed, as a man who really has glued it.

So can we ignore all those advantages because of the soft or wide panels on front upper fuselage?

 

Gabor and I only helped 3D design, tool cutting is out of our control apparently.

There may be something happened in tool factory, technical issue, investment volume, or time which may be the most critical reason.

But we have no idea since it’s the negotiation between brand owner and tool factory.

I cannot disclose how hard we negotiate with brand owner, trying to make details on plastic parts matching 3D design to assure everyone gets the kit exactly as shown in 3D design, since that’s commercially confidential, but we have tried our best.

 

I even sent Tamiya 1/48 F-16 smoke clear part to factory for their reference, but still they could not make the color exactly matches on.

 

So you can see, there was limitation for only 3 of us checking the parts, especially Gabor is far away from us but tool factory could not just wait and wait and wait.

They need to move forward and so does GWH to catch the schedule before Chinese new year holidays which means factories will restart until March.

 

Whether the panel lines on upper front fuselage are acceptable or not, it depends on personal standard or personal purpose.

If you really concern then wait to see others’ building report.

At least to me, I even did not quite notice them until you point them out because rescribing is quite normal in my model making habit.

BTW the “flaws” are already there on finished T1 samples shown in Tokyo, so you have some idea how it will looks like once built.

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10513465

 

After all we tried our best to assure most panel lines and rivets on where they should be on photos, I rechecked the surface and surprisingly even some river amount on panels are same with photos.

That’s some nice rivet counter work.

 

Good or bad, acceptable or unacceptable,  the kit’s there.

Just like Gabor also said there is no 100% perfect kit.

After all it’s a model instead of a piece of artwork, which needs some hand work to finish. 

And that’s the fun for the hobby, isn’t it.

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Right on, Berkut.  The most disappointing thing is there are people you trust in ARC that makes you buy the kit, and later found out it is all Sales and Marketing pitch.  I guess there must be some incentives involved in the promotion of this kit.  The fact that the no so good modellers always dream to achieve what the experts have done have taken advantaged by some marketing people makes me angry.

 

3 hours ago, Mr Matt Foley said:

What the "F-CK-1C" happened with the mold? It looks like they had 2 molds to start with and then combined them. That would explain the weak(er) panel lines on the forward fuselage and the gigantic size panel line between the two.

 

I am just waiting someone to figure this out.  And yes, it seemed to me they have different process in making the frontal fuselage, and the middle/rear fuselage.

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I do wish for incentives or even design commission for this project.

But there is NONE.

Neither was there when I helped them with MiG-29.

 

Well believe or not is also your freedom,  but please show your evidence to prove your “assumption” when you are “guessing”.

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I am thankful that there are persons like Haneto & Gabor who are trying to help make better models by working with modeling companies. Sometimes they don't get to control every aspect of the production and I accept that limitation. I get to make the final decision on purchase or not, and if the final product doesn't meet my desires I won't purchase it, but I'm not going to blame Haneto & Gabor for the kits shortcomings. 

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This is very poor quality control and engineering. This should have been caught in the beginning. They retooled other kits with  errors, they can do the same here. They should be embarrassed to let such a defect go unchecked. I shouldn't have to putty or  rescribe anyting like that on a new state-of-the-art model. I'm very disappointed!

Edited by B.Sin
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22 minutes ago, DarkKnight said:

would a retooled  fuselage top solve the problem, they redid the mig 29 didnt they?

 

I think the error with the MiG-29 was that they packed the large-spined 9-13 upper fuselages into the initial 9-12 kits.

 

The one in which retooling was involved was the F-15. The nose and spine just aft of the canopy were wrongly shaped so they redid the entire nose section, canopy and spine area. 

 

In both cases, GWH made good and sent replacement parts to owners of the affected kits.

 

Mark

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