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Aviation Art Su-33 1/48


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3 hours ago, Mstor said:

There are an awful lot of sink marks on many of the parts. I would think they will need to correct that before release. Same problem the early Kinetic Su-33 kits had (which has now been corrected from what I hear).

 

Kinetic DID correct the tools to avoid the sink marks. Actually Kinetic replaced the original kit with those awful sinks for a brand new one free of charge after contact.

 

From what I see this new kit so to say "inherited" some of the tooling problems while many of the details were corrected. But the tooling . . .

 

Best regards

Gabor

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12 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

 

Kinetic DID correct the tools to avoid the sink marks. Actually Kinetic replaced the original kit with those awful sinks for a brand new one free of charge after contact.

 

From what I see this new kit so to say "inherited" some of the tooling problems while many of the details were corrected. But the tooling . . .

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Thanks for that info. Damn good of Kinetic. I wish I had waited before starting my Kinetic Su-33 (old molds). By the time the new one came out, I was about 80% done and have no desire to do another.

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8 hours ago, Nino_Belov said:

I have just spoken with SuperTomcat21 on other forum and he told me that this is test sample,and that this is not serial production model.So no alarm...They have tested molds,temperatures etc...so what is shown on those pictures above are NOT serial and FINISHED product.

Glad to hear that.

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4 hours ago, Nino_Belov said:

Yes they did,and the man who had done that,says that it fits perfect.

There is also a pictures of it comparison with parts of version 1.0,and truth to tell there is so much deferences. But I don't know can I take those pictures from that other forum and post here.I will need to ask this man ,will he me give a permission to do that...And also I dont know do I have right to post on this forum pictures from other forum...I am betwean hammer and the anvil...

 Hopefully all of the issues will be worked out before the kit is released.  I'm sure it will be fine!

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13 hours ago, Nino_Belov said:

I have just spoken with SuperTomcat21 on other forum and he told me that this is test sample,and that this is not serial production model.So no alarm...They have tested molds,temperatures etc...so what is shown on those pictures above are NOT serial and FINISHED product.

 

Hmmm, Gabor stated above that Kinetic had to redo the molds to eliminate the sink mark problems. I hope this doesn't become the same kind of problem here. :hmmm:

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9 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

Hmmm, Gabor stated above that Kinetic had to redo the molds to eliminate the sink mark problems. I hope this doesn't become the same kind of problem here. :hmmm:

 

Please dont confuse adjustment and re-tooling of a mould.

Kinetic did not retool! They simply adjusted the injection moulding procedure. Injection moulding and its technology is an interesting subject but far bigger than what can be even scratched on a forum like this. In short the flow of molten plastic inside the tool, the temperature, gates and the cooling cycle . . .   of the tool to make plastic removable is where the real problem can be found. It is all possible to adjust to eliminated problems.

 

Actually in our age there are fantastic comp programs which are specifically designed to model tools, molten plastic, cooling, number of gates, optimal cooling system . . . But also in parts brake down which is in many cases responsible for such problems. Using prior modelling and all this can be eliminated in CAD design stage while in practice many makers cut metal and realise problems only when the first test sprues are made. Not making proper tool design in short term saves time and money but in long term can be far more costly in a project like this no matter how fine and fantastic details are incorporated into a kit.

 

Kinetic corrected what they could with the given tools.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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3 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

 

Please dont confuse adjustment and re-tooling of a mould.

Kinetic did not retool! They simply adjusted the injection moulding procedure. Injection moulding and its technology is an interesting subject but far bigger than what can be even scratched on a forum like this. In short the flow of molten plastic inside the tool, the temperature, gates and the cooling cycle . . .   of the tool to make plastic removable is where the real problem can be found. It is all possible to adjust to eliminated problems.

 

Actually in our age there are fantastic comp programs which are specifically designed to model tools, molten plastic, cooling, number of gates, optimal cooling system . . . But also in parts brake down which is in many cases responsible for such problems. Using prior modelling and all this can be eliminated in CAD design stage while in practice many makers cut metal and realise problems only when the first test sprues are made. Not making proper tool design in short term saves time and money but in long term can be far more costly in a project like this no matter how fine and fantastic details are incorporated into a kit.

 

Kinetic corrected what they could with the given tools.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I took "Kinetic DID correct the tools to avoid the sink marks" to mean they made changes in the actual molds. My bad.

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4 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

Sorry if I misunderstood you. I took "Kinetic DID correct the tools to avoid the sink marks" to mean they made changes in the actual molds. My bad.


sorry to put message here, it related to Kinetic. 
 

we have do some adjustment on the tooling to allow it to inject without the shrink effect. But the result does not have too much. The major breakthrough on the su-33 is the total engineering from tooling design to injection system. 
 

The su-33 lead to the investment in the in house injection floor with digital motor. The result is very good and basically fix most of the injection problem that trouble us for year. The injection is quite unique where it is not common to find a subcontractor. Without such facilities one should to do excessive QC sprue by sprue like resin casting. Instead we solve it by Process Control. 

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1 hour ago, Raymond Chung said:


sorry to put message here, it related to Kinetic. 
 

we have do some adjustment on the tooling to allow it to inject without the shrink effect. But the result does not have too much. The major breakthrough on the su-33 is the total engineering from tooling design to injection system. 
 

The su-33 lead to the investment in the in house injection floor with digital motor. The result is very good and basically fix most of the injection problem that trouble us for year. The injection is quite unique where it is not common to find a subcontractor. Without such facilities one should to do excessive QC sprue by sprue like resin casting. Instead we solve it by Process Control. 

 

 

What ever adjustment work did Kinetic do on the original tools to control the problem, the result was good. I had both the original and the new Kinetic version thanks to the company and the difference was clearly visible! Thanks again!

 

Best regards

Gabor

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7 hours ago, Nino_Belov said:

She will came out without those sink marks.

 

As they say, the proof is in the pudding. In other words, I will have to see for myself, but I have a good feeling about this one. It will very good to have a very accurate, highly detailed and will molded Su-33 kit. Now, like I said, if only you had done this a couple of years ago. Then I wouldn't have already bought the old version of the Kinetic kit already. At very least, I would have gotten the improved Kinetic kit, but if the AA one had been released, I would have certainly gone with it.

Oh well, it is what it is. Now if I could only get myself restarted on finishing my Kinetic Su-33. Damn health problems have put a halt on all my modeling activities. Aside for the Guintas Mig-29 cockpit set, I haven't made any modeling related purchases in many months (its amazing how much money I have managed to save in that time).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like Nino has taken all his toys and gone home.

 

I think he has cleared out every one of his posts.

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