F4DPhantomII Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Interior green or natural metal(unpainted)? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Ghost 531 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Depends. Is the airframe camo or bare metal? If it's bare metal, so is the bomb bay and really everything aft of the cockpit. If it's camo, it depends. It's one of those situations were to be truly accurate you need a picture of the aircraft you're modeling taken in the time period in which your model represents. I think they got away from worrying about corrosion when the Air Force realized none of them would last long enough to corrode. I can't tell you when the date of that realization was. Or you could be like me and SWAG it because the only people who will really care that you might have gotten it wrong are those who's opinions you shouldn't value very highly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afspret Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 One thing that's been nagging at the back of my normally scattered brain for a while has to do with sound proofing material. Did they continue using it in the cockpit, nose and radio compartments of all models right up till the end of production or was it discontinued at some point, or maybe taken out a modification centers after being built? I only ask because I've seen a few pics, mostly of 'Gs', with no sound proofing in the nose compartment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 19 hours ago, afspret said: One thing that's been nagging at the back of my normally scattered brain for a while has to do with sound proofing material. Did they continue using it in the cockpit, nose and radio compartments of all models right up till the end of production or was it discontinued at some point, or maybe taken out a modification centers after being built? I only ask because I've seen a few pics, mostly of 'Gs', with no sound proofing in the nose compartment. You can check out the B-17G Parts Catalog to see if it is listed: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.ca/2017/08/b-17g-parts-catalog.html Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
afspret Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 nope don't seem to see it anywhere, but then again this is showing parts for post-war versions, since it was revised in 1948 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Regarding the sound insulation I came across this (no idea if it helps): Insulation: There was soundproofing insulation in the forward areas of the aircraft. The flight deck was always insulated in the B-17E,F and early G models [and] the bombardier and radio areas were also insulated. In later G models the insulation was not installed in the radio room or nose area - except for the bulkhead (forward of the instrument panel). Michael LombardiCorporate Historian,The Boeing Company Quote Link to post Share on other sites
100th BG Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) While I hate to disagree with Mr. Lombardi, here is the drawing from the Boeing engineering drawings relating to the sound proofing. The sound proofing in the nose and radio compartment was deleted after 42-30616 (F-110-BO). So the -115 through -130 Boeing F's did not have it nor did any of the G's. The G cockpit had it throughout production. And the aft bulkhead in the nose had the soundproofing on the early aircraft (through 43-39008, mid Block 100) but it was finally deleted as well. Being and Douglas built aircraft did not paint the interior. There is some evidence that SOME Douglas aircraft got painted internally. Another note on the fabric and insulation: Some crews mentioned tearing it out as they were afraid of fire. The materials were supposed to be fire resistant but... Anyway, if the fabric is removed, the area underneath was not painted. You do not prime an area that you want glue to stick to (the sound deadening mats were glued in place). Edited August 31, 2017 by 100th BG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) On 8/22/2017 at 8:40 AM, F4DPhantomII said: Interior green or natural metal(unpainted)? Pretty much natural metal for both areas. Memphis Belle seems to have had neutral grey in her bomb bay according to what I've been told by a person who has climbed in and on her. I don't know if that was a production block thing or if there's other evidence of neutral grey bomb bays in other E's and F's. Outside of that and for all intents and purposes and lacking any definitive photos of the subject aircraft, natural metal will be correct in the bomb bay and in the aft fuselage areas (aft of frame 6). As far as the insulation is concerned, you can't go wrong with the Boeing blue prints. However, the insulation shown in the above blue print covered batting that was installed underneath and was affixed to the interior skin between the stringers and formers within the nose, flight deck and the radio room. You can see this batting in interior photos of B-17E's and F's with the insulation removed. Flight deck coloration is dull dark green for production aircraft, not interior green as is often depicted/called out in kit instructions. Furthermore, the flight deck floor beneath the rudder pedals would be natural metal whereas the flooring behind the pilots seats would have black rubber matting cemented to the plywood flooring. Same holds true for the radio room flooring and nose floors, rubber mats cemented to plywood flooring, including the camera bay door. Rubber mats initially installed in the waist area on the walkways gave way (as did the plywood flooring If I'm remembering what I've been told properly) to anti-skid paint. Some of the information above was distilled by me from conversations and posts from a noted B-17 SME. If there are errors in the above statements, they're mine alone and should not reflect on the source of the information. Edited September 6, 2017 by timc add content Quote Link to post Share on other sites
100th BG Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Per Tim's comments above, a couple of minor changes. Further research has shown the floor around the top turret did not get the anti-skid treatment. And the radio compartment only had it down the center, the width of the camera well. I provided the info Tim was using and I misinterpreted the drawings back then. Keep learning! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I remember seeing a photo somewhere that showed the waist compartment on this particular aircraft was natural metal with Zinc Chromate Yellow stringers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted September 9, 2017 Share Posted September 9, 2017 (edited) On 9/7/2017 at 6:42 PM, DonSS3 said: I remember seeing a photo somewhere that showed the waist compartment on this particular aircraft was natural metal with Zinc Chromate Yellow stringers. Some did (as shown below) but I believe as production demands increased, the practice of priming those stringers and formers was abandoned at least in part. Below that is aview of the R/H waist gun position in a B-17G. The natural metal stringers and formers are pretty evident. at least one source for the below photo indicates that this is a fuselage section of a Douglas built B-17F. Edited September 9, 2017 by timc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DonSS3 Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 Great shots, Tim, thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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