Spectre711 Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 What are the visual differences between the P-47D and the P-47M? I know the M is supposed to have 6 guns but that is it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cameron Lynch Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 It depends on which D model you're talking about. There are fewer differences between a bubble top D-25 than a later D-30. Are you talking purely external differences? 1. All P-47s left the factory with 8x.50 Browning M2 machine guns. Some individual pilots in the field may have removed a couple to decrease weight...but that would have been rare. 2. P-47M's usually had a fillet in front of the vertical tail. It could be a smaller angular fillet or the later round big fillet. Some early Ms were delivered without a fillet and they were added at the depot level. Look at photo references of your specific aircraft. 3. P-47Ms came with the late D-30 type cockpit with the smooth floor rather than the earlier corrugated looking floor. 4. P-47Ms had a late "c" series R-2800 engine with the split type gear case on the front rather than the cast magnesium gear case found on the earlier P-47s. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sowar Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 M had always large symetrical blade propeller with tapered cuff (parallel edge on D model and symmetrical or asymmetrical blades) the reduction gearbox was different(serie C engine instead B) About armament, theorically M had 6 guns/8, but on some picture we can see four breech covers in the gun bay of one wing. two guns could be removed originally to decrease the weight and increase roll rate but the blast tube remain in place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre711 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Wow, that is a lot. Was trying to figure how hard it would be to retro a Monogram, Hasegawa or Tamiya D into a M.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Why not invest in a Tamiya -M? It's a wonderful build, and it has all the parts you need to do any bubbletop -D or M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre711 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Its just that I have a few Monogram and Hasegawa D bubble tops. I figured I could modify one of them so I could use some Aeromaster Wolfpack decals I have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 The only way to definitively tell a P-47M-1RE from any later version of the P-47D (P-47D-30 or -40) is by serial number unless you can see the prop reduction gear case as was mentioned above (B vs. C series R-2800; -59 on the D and -57 on the M). Prop type is no indication that it's a P-47D or M with the exception of the Hamilton Standard hydromatic prop. Although it could use it, I have not yet seen a photo of any P-47M with one installed. While it is true that the majority of P-47M's used the symmetrical Curtiss electric paddle blade propeller, a lot of earlier P-47D's used them as well so that is no indication in and of itself that the subject aircraft is a P-47M. The P-47M's were only operated by the 56th FG from February of 1945 so if there's any other group markings on a suspect plane, it's not a P-47M. HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sowar Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, timc said: The only way to definitively tell a P-47M-1RE from any later version of the P-47D (P-47D-30 or -40) is by serial number unless you can see the prop reduction gear case as was mentioned above (B vs. C series R-2800; -59 on the D and -57 on the M). Prop type is no indication that it's a P-47D or M with the exception of the Hamilton Standard hydromatic prop. Although it could use it, I have not yet seen a photo of any P-47M with one installed. While it is true that the majority of P-47M's used the symmetrical Curtiss electric paddle blade propeller, a lot of earlier P-47D's used them as well so that is no indication in and of itself that the subject aircraft is a P-47M. The P-47M's were only operated by the 56th FG from February of 1945 so if there's any other group markings on a suspect plane, it's not a P-47M. HTH the type of propeller cuff of M & N is characteristic, M & N : C642S B40 DWG 836-14C2-18R1 , large symmetrical blade + tapered cuffs. This propeller could'nt be fitted on serie B engine because the hub was a 32 splines type instead 16 D: hub 16 splines, D28-30 : C542S A114/A122 DWG 836-2C2-18 large symmetrical blade+parallel cuff, this blade is similar drawing to the M's propeller except the cuffs. it's not easy to see the cuff if the pic don't show a front view or if engine running. D23, 26, 28, 30, 40: C542S A120/124/126/130/132 DWG SPA 1, 3 or 5, assymmetrical D22, 25, 27 : Hamilton standard 24E50-65 DWG 6507A-2 Edited September 7, 2017 by Sowar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Sowar said: the type of propeller cuff of M & N is characteristic, M & N : C642S B40 DWG 836-14C2-18R1 , large symmetrical blade + tapered cuffs. This propeller could'nt be fitted on serie B engine because the hub was a 32 splines type instead 16 D: hub 16 splines, D28-30 : C542S A114/A122 DWG 836-2C2-18 large symmetrical blade+parallel cuff, this blade is similar drawing to the M's propeller except the cuffs. it's not easy to see the cuff if the pic don't show a front view or if engine running. D23, 26, 28, 30, 40: C642S A120/124/126/130/132 DWG SPA 1, 3 or 5, assymmetrical D22, 25, 27 : Hamilton standard 24E50-65 DWG 6507A-2 Are you saying that all D26s had asymmetrical props? I was under the impression that any of the bubbletops prior to the M, besides those with the Hamilton Standards, could be seen with either the C542Sxxx symmetrical or asymmetrical props. Or is what you've stated simply the way they were delivered from the factories? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sowar Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 (edited) it's theorical only for aircrafts delivered by factory, (according EMM P47, specifications P47 Fighters & list of propellers for service AC) Republic Aviation's specifications about D23, 26 , 28 & up give also hub C542S A 114+blades DWG 836-2C2-18(symmetrical).I would check tonight Sorry for my bad english... Edited September 7, 2017 by Sowar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stalal Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Tamiya P47M is a wonderful kit. And the best part is that if you have M version, you can also build a bubble top D version. The difference between D and M version in Tamiya kits is that the M version kit has all the parts from D version with one parts tree added that represents all the changes you will need to build a M version. So go for an M kit and get decals for a D version of your choice. You cant go wrong with Tamiya fit, engineering and quality of surface detail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D. Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Medallion models made a P-47M conversion kit for the Monogram P-47D kit. Came with 1 or 2 different fillets and a new prop...maybe a few other pieces. They show up from time to time on eBay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PFlint Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 compressibility flaps were also added from P-47D-30-RE and -RA ,and were on all planes after that. I just checked my Monogram P-47 bubbletop (1/48) and it does not have them. that combined with the Hamilton prop indicates the Monogram kit is a P-47D-25 if you use the Monogram kit you will have to add the flaps and move the landing light to below the pitot tube. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
timc Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 On 9/7/2017 at 7:15 AM, Sowar said: the type of propeller cuff of M & N is characteristic, M & N : C642S B40 DWG 836-14C2-18R1 , large symmetrical blade + tapered cuffs. This propeller could'nt be fitted on serie B engine because the hub was a 32 splines type instead 16 D: hub 16 splines, D28-30 : C542S A114/A122 DWG 836-2C2-18 large symmetrical blade+parallel cuff, this blade is similar drawing to the M's propeller except the cuffs. it's not easy to see the cuff if the pic don't show a front view or if engine running. D23, 26, 28, 30, 40: C542S A120/124/126/130/132 DWG SPA 1, 3 or 5, assymmetrical D22, 25, 27 : Hamilton standard 24E50-65 DWG 6507A-2 I see what you mean. The C series R-2800 has an SAE 60 size spline prop shaft whereas the B series R-2800 has an SAE 50 size spline prop shaft. No wonder I've never seeen Hamilton-Standard hydromatic prop on the M, it won't fit. I have Graham White's book on the 2800 but God only knows where it is right now. I moved two years ago and it's still in storage someplace in the apartment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eraucubsfan Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Digging up an old thread... Want to build Tar Heel Hal in 1/48, which is a P-47D-30-RA. I have the Tamiya M kit and am curious what parts I should use to do the D-30-RA The obvious is using the L12, L13, L19 for the fillet rudder What about the cockpit floor? Use the D kit parts ? Or the M kit parts? Also the wing inserts? If I understand correctly I should use the ones from the M kit, because this T-bolt would have the compressibility flaps installed. The only thing would be the gear reduction housing (I think that's what its called), which one should I use? Thank you in advance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Maybe the easiest way is to compare the M instructions with the D Bubbletop instructions, which can be found here: https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/8/2/106382-17-instructions.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eraucubsfan Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 20 hours ago, seawinder said: Maybe the easiest way is to compare the M instructions with the D Bubbletop instructions, which can be found here: https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/3/8/2/106382-17-instructions.pdf I did, plus I have both kits, I just want to ensure I am using the correct parts for that version of a D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 I think your list of parts to use in your earlier post is correct. The D-30 had compressibility flaps, so yes. For sure you want the D-style gear reduction housing (engine front), which would be B12/G15/G15. According to the blurb from an Obscureco replacement cockpit floor here -- https://www.scalemates.com/kits/obscureco-aircraft-obs72025-p-47d-30-40-flat-cockpit-floor--1296337 -- the D-30 and D-40 had the flat riveted floor, so L8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F-16 Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Did the "M" have the landing gear further outboard? Aren't the inner gear doors further "outboard" than on the "D"? Scott CNJC-IPMS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, F-16 said: Did the "M" have the landing gear further outboard? Aren't the inner gear doors further "outboard" than on the "D"? Scott CNJC-IPMS No, that was the “N”, which had a longer span wing with squared off wingtips. The “M” was pretty much just a late P-47D (few D-27 and majority D-30) airframe with a more powerful “C” series engine. Edited May 18, 2022 by Dave Williams Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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