DarkKnight Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I would certainly love to read and learn more about the Mig-29 in Yugoslavian service, markings and weapons load outs to build awn accurate MiG-29 in 1/48. I am interested in the NATO campaign aircraft and their history. I usually like to model a specific airframe with interesting history Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blek Stena Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Yugoslavia was first export country in Europe and second in world (India was first) to receive Mig-29. Both India and Yugoslavia received Mig-29B export version but those first Mig-29B versions were very similar to Soviet Mig-29's, and better then export Mig-29A's. In fact, there is rumor that USSR actualy tricked Yugoslavia, and that first batch of Mig-29 send to Yugoslavia were not new airframes, but used Soviet ones. I don't know if that is true, but there are some diferences between Yugoslav Mig-29's like absence of front wheel fod guard for example on first delivered batches. First two Mig-29UB's were delivered in september 1987, and then total of 14 single seaters were delivered in 3 batches (first three on December 22nd, 1987 (serials 18101, 18102, 18103), then on December 28, 1987 another 7 (18104...18110), and last 4 in April 1988 (18111-18114). Only those last four had nose leg fod guard). Mig-29 in Yugoslava was called L-18, and twoseaters NL-18. I have seen pictures of Yugoslav Mig-29's with S-24 rockets, and UB-32 rocket lunchers but for testing only. R-27, R-73 and R-60 was main armament. I will leave others to write about their usage in operation Allied Force in 1999, instead here is my model (GWH 1/48) in pre 1992 markings.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 ^^^a very nice build, care to share more details? I like that you included the pilot to give a sense of scale, I recently saw a Mig-29 at he USAF Museum and was surprised how small it was. It really is a compact fighter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DraganChe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) Dear friend, Here are some info during the conflict in 1999.: I have worked 10 years on MiG-29 as a weapon specialist. In our ,Serbian former Yugoslav air force there is MiG-29 who have the longest dog fight expirience of that type of aircraft, from the time that aircraft was produced until today,in all conflicts. When was NATO and USAF aggresion on Yugoslavia/Serbia in 1999, we had only 14+2 MiG-29 frames which had confronted against almost 2000 frames of aircrafts, in very often situation there was one MiG-29 against 60-65 fighters. I have seen on radar screen when NATO and USAF aircraft running around single MiG-29 and try to avoid dog fight and shoot all missiles BWR,and in many ocasions MiG have avoided all of them, but imagine situation like that, even if there was 60-65 agains one... And there was some situation when for example MiG-29 Ev.No.18101 countered them ,and chase them of, and prevent to acomplish their mission, not once.. but three time, and there was a very very much all kind of situation :-)...for example there was first and only F-15 loss in dogfight in his history... and some F-117.. ;-) There was similar situation like in movie "300". MiG-29 is definitly combat proven 100% pure blood fighter...I have seen it :-) As of variant of MiG-29 it is same like in Russian airforce, it is not downgraded like Hungarian,Bulgarian..etc... And here is some of painting scheme: This is in old painting scheme,and during the war: And here is them,after the war and in new painting scheme,also what is important that they are modernized to SM standard...new weapons,cockpit..etc... And one of my favorite picture is ,when they escort "STRIZI" to the border :-) All the best, Dragan. Edited October 4, 2017 by DraganChe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DraganChe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Blek Stena said: Yugoslavia was first export country in Europe and second in world (India was first) to receive Mig-29. Both India and Yugoslavia received Mig-29B export version but those first Mig-29B versions were very similar to Soviet Mig-29's, and better then export Mig-29A's. In fact, there is rumor that USSR actualy tricked Yugoslavia, and that first batch of Mig-29 send to Yugoslavia were not new airframes, but used Soviet ones. I don't know if that is true, but there are some diferences between Yugoslav Mig-29's like absence of front wheel fod guard for example on first delivered batches. First two Mig-29UB's were delivered in september 1987, and then total of 14 single seaters were delivered in 3 batches (first three on December 22nd, 1987 (serials 18101, 18102, 18103), then on December 28, 1987 another 7 (18104...18110), and last 4 in April 1988 (18111-18114). Only those last four had nose leg fod guard). Mig-29 in Yugoslava was called L-18, and twoseaters NL-18. I have seen pictures of Yugoslav Mig-29's with S-24 rockets, and UB-32 rocket lunchers but for testing only. R-27, R-73 and R-60 was main armament. I will leave others to write about their usage in operation Allied Force in 1999, instead here is my model (GWH 1/48) in pre 1992 markings.... Dear friend,Yugoslavia have recived NEW aircraft same as soviet.100% TRUE info! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DraganChe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Here is some presentation of mine model kits of MiG-29 in Yugoslav/Serbian paint: Oldest one,Academy 1/48: And in new colors MiG-29UB,Revell 1/32 scale: All the best, Dragan. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Matt Foley Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Nice work. Get yourself some of the Mig-29 nozzles from Zactomodels.com They are beautiful and look much better than the junk Revell includes in their kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DraganChe Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Mr Matt Foley said: Nice work. Get yourself some of the Mig-29 nozzles from Zactomodels.com They are beautiful and look much better than the junk Revell includes in their kit. Thank you friend. :-) I have buyed Zacto's nozzles, they are perfect!!! I will instal them with other Zacto's products on my next project :-) . Revell model kit is realy junk eheheheeh, you got that right! I had to do a lot of surgery to get it atleast right. All the best, Dragan. Edited October 4, 2017 by DraganChe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomthegrom Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Hello, The Tango6 aviation blog has recently published a very long and in depth article about the MiG 29 in Serbaian/ Yugoslav service. You will need to translate it though. One of my good friends who is an ex serbian airforce pilot said the article is very accurate and informative. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 DraganChe, on the paint scheme you posted, their are areas where previous markings were oversprayed, some appear to be ares where the former Yugoslavian markings are covered, other appear to be covering unit markings, was this because of wartime security or just a change in squadron number. I have a friend who lived in Belgrade during this time, he was very mad when bombs destroyed bridges across his town. I am interested in Mig-29 performance during this war. in the USA we have the impression that the middle eastern pilots have centralized command and control and relatively poor training. I would presume that Yugoslavian pilots would be trained on a level equivalent to soviet pilots? If I remember Yugoslavia has many mountains, certainly different terrain from the middle east. Did Serbian pilots use terrain masking to avoid missiles? What was a typical air to air load out for this time, did you use auxiliary fuel tanks? thanks for posting on this topic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DraganChe Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, tomthegrom said: Hello, The Tango6 aviation blog has recently published a very long and in depth article about the MiG 29 in Serbaian/ Yugoslav service. You will need to translate it though. One of my good friends who is an ex serbian airforce pilot said the article is very accurate and informative. Dear friend, First of all, most important thing is that all Serbian/Yugoslav MiG-29's was operational, in good shape, and propaganda was that they was in poor maintance and technical condition...As I told I was eating bread from MiG-29 for 10 years. And that is thing that was not mantion there. Edited October 5, 2017 by DraganChe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
terrysumner Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 All the political stuff has been deleted. Stick to the actual topic or I will delete this entire thread and ban the ones who insist on getting political. Terry Sumner Moderator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 The aircraft delivered without nose wheel mudguards, was there a reason for this?was this a local modification? I am thinking of building either aircraft 18101 or 18114 So it appears 18101 is without the nose mudguard and 18104 is with nose gear mudguard out of curiosity did a Mig-29 ever allegedly track an F-117 via radar or IRST do you have more photos from this time period? do you agree those 2 aircraft numbers are the most historically significant airframes? did the Serbian Mig-29 ever face the Croatian Mig-21 I presume the area of oversprayed markings should be darker as the older paint would have faded Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 The real “early” 9-12’s were a “bit” different from the 9-12’s we know today. The mud guard: the early ones did not have one! Very simple the nose bay doors had 3 parts, two side panels (just as on todays version) but they were much shorter, and one front panel which was attached to the nose gear leg, facing to the front almost like a plough. The inside of the gear box was also different. The door arrangement was soon changed, the “plough” removed and “long” side doors added but the mud guard (the one we know today) was not fitted to most of them. Looking at the nose gear leg one can see if it was the one which had the “plough” originaly. In the first year of service this is how they looked like, but there were so many other differences too. Like the slats had 4 segments, after the top aux intakes you have three openings covered with a mesh and a big bulge next to it. On the early examples the bulge was missing completely. The intake guards had a different pattern, the central unified Safety armament switch was in a different position. The canopy opening handle was very different, the gun cover had a multitude of gills, the tail airbrake was different not to speak of the “short” rudders, RSBN antenna under the nose and the one on the tail had a different shape, flap actuators did not have a cover . . . There were particular aspects of the paint scheme which were unique to the very early 9-12’s. The list is very long!!! I have not seen the Yugoslav examples so could not say which structural version they were. Important to emphasize “structural” which had no effect on its electronics capability, be it export 9-12A or B model or the exclusively Russian 9-12 version! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) So is this the best kit in 1/48?, my plan is to build aircraft 18114, armed for air to air mission with centerline fuel tank, the picture of the aircraft in shelter in alert configuration looks like its got a centerline tank on to me. DraganChe if your still following this thread, did Serbian pilots wear the typical blue flight suit? My model will have pilot and with engines running, are the FOD doors open and upper intakes closed in this situation Edited October 8, 2017 by DarkKnight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blek Stena Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) DarkKnight, I have no connection with Serbia or Serbian AF, however I do have several books about Yugoslav AF, including Mig-29 in YAF and SAF. so I have following to say regarding your questions: 1. Did Croatian Mig-21 and Yugoslav/Serbian Mig's (21 and 29) ever meet in combat? No. 2.GWH Mig-29 9-12 early boxing is fine because it includes all the parts for 9-12 late which you actually need (so 9-12 late boxing is ok too) 3. Looking at period photos I would say that by 1999 uniforms of Mig-29 pilots where camouflaged, not blue. 4. If engine is running fod screens are down, and upper intakes are open. This is mandatory as fod screen and upper gills are linked. Anything else would be major malfunction. I see a lot of great builds with upper intakes open, fod screens either open or closed, and without pilot in cockpit which is simply impossible. PS. I was, also surprised how small Mig-29 is. It looks like a toy compared to Su-27. Only aircraft that surprised me more how small it is was Mirage 2000. Edited October 8, 2017 by Blek Stena Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DraganChe Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) Dear Dark Knight, Best model kit for that project is model from GWH, but 9-12 late version.Box No.L4811, becasue you get all you need inside :-). As of pilots uniform is was like that, after 1992. they wear green camo uniforme.This is picture of example, on picture is cmander of 127th Sq."Knights" RIP,Col.Milenko Pavlovic.He was killed during action over town of Valjevo, he was in fight against 60 aircrafts, by him single, and you ask anybody about that, there is also many many infoes about that,on second photo is RIP Maj.Iljo Arizanov with probably one air score (F-117).On this video is that situation which is Russian document movie about that and at 0:46 it is start theme about that, and if you know Russian you will understand about that, but maybe there is also translate. and here is some of uniforme patches that were during that period of time: I have printed decals of those patches for uniforme,if you want I can send it to you :-) It will make your build much much realistic :-) As of engine situation for model kit.If you build that engine is runing on the ground, upper intakes are opened,and lover are in closed position.Main intakes are opened when front wheel is up when aircraft is in flight, and in some "other" situation. All the best, Dragan. Edited October 8, 2017 by DraganChe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 DraganChe, if the decals will work for 1/48 that would be greatly appreciated, PM me and i will send you my address R-21x2 R-73x4 Centerline fuel tank will be the load out the pilot helmets seem to have the visor built in and not over helmet, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted October 8, 2017 Author Share Posted October 8, 2017 Blek Stena and Dragan thanks for the information about the intake doors being connected thats something i did not know The Aerobonus Su-27 pilot looks like it may work but will need a new oxygen mask Blek Stena, that was my thought too, the USAF museum in Dayton Ohio has very many aircraft, the Mig-29 seems like a toy, so small to have 2 engines. The SU-27 looks so big and the model box is bigger too The redone KittyHawk SU-35 pilot looks like he might work too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mangas Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Hello, guys. I'm asking for your help. I'm a 2D artist, and right now I'm making a high-resolution profile of MiG-29 (№ 18113, piloted by Zoran Radoslavlevich) of Yugoslavian VVS, using materials of your article here: https://tangosix.rs/2017/29/09/vitez-naseg-neba-30-godina-mig-29-u-naoruzanju-rv-pvo/ unfortunately, the photoes are not very clear to see the green camo spots borders & position. Do you by chance have any other photoes of this aircraft? Any information would help me a lot. Or maybe you know some of the pilots who served during 1999 in the PVO at Batajnica airbase? Sincere regards, Anton Romensky ("Mangas"). https://www.facebook.com/romensky.anton Здравствуйте, участники форума. Мне нужна ваша помощь. Я рисую цветной профиль самолёта МиГ-29 (№18113, пилот Зоран Радославлевич) Югославских ВВС, используя материалы этой Вашей статьи: https://tangosix.rs/2017/29/09/vitez-naseg-neba-30-godina-mig-29-u-naoruzanju-rv-pvo/ к сожалению, этих фотографий не совсем достаточно, чтобы разглядеть зелёные камуфляжные пятна (и другие детали). Есть ли у Вас ещё какие-нибудь фото этого самолёта? Я был бы рад любой Вашей дополнительной информации об этом самолёте. Не знаете ли Вы случайно кого-нибудь из пилотов, служивших на авиабазе Батайница и совершавших вылеты на отражение атак НАТО в 1999 г.? С уважением, Антон Роменский ("Mangas"). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) 23 hours ago, Mangas said: I'm making a high-resolution profile of MiG-29 (№ 18113, piloted by Zoran Radoslavlevich) of Yugoslavian VVS This picture might help if you are doing the profile showing the right side of the plane. Note that the white 113 under the canopy was painted over. Edit: The web addresses to the links you provided are messed up. Here are the correct links: https://tangosix.rs/2017/29/09/vitez-naseg-neba-30-godina-mig-29-u-naoruzanju-rv-pvo/ https://www.facebook.com/romensky.anton I don't do Facebook but I used Google and found some of your profile art. Very nice! Edited August 6, 2019 by Zactoman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mangas Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) Hey, Zactoman, thank you so very nice, mate! No, I'm making an usual port side view. Anyway, the photo helps to understand the camo pattern. My another question is: The photo shows the KMGU (КМГУ) attached to the BDZ-3UMK (БДЗ-УМК) as a loadout: But I'm making it exactly as it looked when Zoran Radoslavlevich flew his last combat sortie. So, in this case, the plane was supposedly armed with it's usual air defence setup: of two medium-range R-27RE1 and four short-range R-60MK air-to-air missiles. Am I correct? Edited August 6, 2019 by Mangas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slobodan Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Mangas said: Hey, Zactoman, thank you so very nice, mate! No, I'm making an usual port side view. Anyway, the photo helps to understand the camo pattern. My another question is: The photo shows the KMGU (КМГУ) attached to the BDZ-3UMK (БДЗ-УМК) as a loadout: But I'm making it exactly as it looked when Zoran Radoslavlevich flew his last combat sortie. So, in this case, the plane was supposedly armed with it's usual air defence setup: of two medium-range R-27RE1 and four short-range R-60MK air-to-air missiles. Am I correct? MiG-29 18113 had 2 x R27 and 4 x R73... Also, note that picture above isn't quite good since it was taken when 18113 had Socialist Yugoslavia markings. During 1999 war MiGs had so called "pepsi" markings, and flag on the tail was smaller without stars, and position of flag was lower while old flags were painted over. Also, numbers on the wings were also painted over just like numbers on the nose. Numbers on the tails were kept but with little bigger font. Hope I've helped You. Sorry for my English. Regards Edited August 6, 2019 by Slobodan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mangas Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Thanks very much, Slobodan. Do you have any photo of MiG-29 in "pepsi" markings during 1999 NATO aggression? I tried to search the web, but with no luck. I need a photo of any (not necessary №18113) MiG-29 in such markings for the correct size & position of the markings & new code stencils (on the rudder). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slobodan Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Mangas said: Thanks very much, Slobodan. Do you have any photo of MiG-29 in "pepsi" markings during 1999 NATO aggression? I tried to search the web, but with no luck. I need a photo of any (not necessary №18113) MiG-29 in such markings for the correct size & position of the markings & new code stencils (on the rudder). Of course I have, just give me an e mail and I'll send You pics today afternoon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.