swimmer25k Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) Did Blue Angel F-4Js fly with the short or long burner cans? I'm having a tough time discerning which ones were used. Secondly, I'm having difficulty with regard to the yellow wingtips. There really aren't any good reference points of demarcation between the yellow and blue. There's a panel line 1/8" in from the wingtips (as measured from an Academy 1/48 F-4J). This doesn't seem to be wide enough. There is no such reference point on the stabs. The wingtip yellow does seem to be wider than on the stabs. Thanks, Chris Edited October 4, 2017 by swimmer25k Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 I'm going off memory of what I've heard, but they flew mostly with short burner cans. I can't remember if they got some long burner cans towards the end or not, but I know for sure they flew with the short ones. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmer25k Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, Darren Roberts said: I'm going off memory of what I've heard, but they flew mostly with short burner cans. I can't remember if they got some long burner cans towards the end or not, but I know for sure they flew with the short ones. Thanks Darren. Spruebrothers to the rescue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) http://thanlont.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-short-tragic-operation-of-f-4.html for J79 engine configuration Edited October 4, 2017 by Tailspin Turtle Bigger Picture Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mhvink Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 According to the info I have, the F-4J's that were acquired by the Blues in 1969 had the older version of the J-79 engine. They did not get the newer J79-GE-10 engines until March 1973 and flew them until the end of that season. They transitioned to the A-4's the next year. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmer25k Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, mhvink said: According to the info I have, the F-4J's that were acquired by the Blues in 1969 had the older version of the J-79 engine. They did not get the newer J79-GE-10 engines until March 1973 and flew them until the end of that season. They transitioned to the A-4's the next year. Mike Mike, Thanks for the information. Do you know if they flew the same airframes for all the seasons they were in the F-4? Chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mhvink Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Here is what is written: 1969-1973, F-4J: In the late 1960s, two situations resulted in the F11F finally being replaced. First, the Navy was running out of F11Fs. Second, the Navy had bought an improved version of its front line fighter, the McDonnell F-4 Phantom, but its new radar and improved engine were not available in time to be installed in the first production F-4Js. As a result, the Navy had brand-new Phantoms with lead ballast in the nose and the prior version of the J79 engine. Twelve or so of these were made available to the Blues to replace the F11F. To improve handling qualities in the very close formation maneuvers, the control system was modified, including a change to allow afterburner to be selected at a lower engine rpm. A smoke system was also added. Although the Phantom was a terrific air show airplane, the Blues experienced a series of unfortunate events with them. Nine of the lead-nosed Js were lost in accidents between September 1969 and March 1973, requiring replacement with a few “real” Js with the J79-GE-10 engine. Another was destroyed in early July 1973 at an air show. However, the 1973 season ended in tragedy on 26 July when a midair between the team leader and a wing man occurred during an arrival display at NAS Lakehurst NJ. The boss, the pilot of the other F-4, and a Chief Petty Office in the backseat of one of the F-4s were killed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Chris, I dont know if you've read my posts on my BA F-4 project. I spent hours researching all of these little details. First, I think there were only 2 F-4Js late in the F-4 days equipped with the -10 J-79. All of the initial F-4s were ultimately written off plus some. It was shocking the number of mishaps. A summary of these can be found on the "Ejection Site" with dates, fatalities etc. I. Amassed photos from old books: "Airshow" published in 1970, "Threshold" in '73, and a 1972 or '3 BA yearbook I got at Pt. Magu or Miramar when I was in high school. Tommy's planview drawing above is in that yearbook. It's origin is McDonnell Douglas and also contains side elevations. I highly recommend watching "Threshold" online. It was going to be in theatres until one of the big mishaps occured; there were two in that time frame. The movie was dropped from mass release after that. You can glean TONS of detail from that video including some brief cockpit shots showing the installation of other intruments where the scope etc was. You can also see the different bare metal areas and the insignia red inside of the aux air doors, speed boards, and end caps of the ailerons and flaps. The nose gear door was blue inside as were the wheels both nose and mains. A note on color. I tried Model Master BA Blue, Dark Blue 15050, and True Blue 15102.. I also bought a can of Krylon rattle can True Blue, decanted some and sprayed it on a flat section. I thought I was going to go blind it was so bright. It didn't airbrush all that well either. The 15102 looked the best based on my memory and clear images. I like Gunze but got away from it because it remained to easy to fingerprint for days. For gloss colors I love MM; it's wet sandable between coats, polishes and drys hard. I'll report back to ARC this fall when I visit the Blue's change of command. I'll at least get the true skinny on F-18 colors and poke around for anything I can find on other jets. I'd love it if we could find a swatch of the Desoto colors used on the F-4s to compare which blue comes the closest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 8 hours ago, swimmer25k said: Do you know if they flew the same airframes for all the seasons they were in the F-4? Did you read Tommy's link wrt all the airframes lost in accidents ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gene K Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, habu2 said: Did you read Tommy's link wrt all the airframes lost in accidents ? Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
swimmer25k Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share Posted October 6, 2017 34 minutes ago, Gene K said: Gene K Not until just now. I incorrectly assumed that the link was to the graphic he posted. Great info. Thanks everyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Tommy always has Great Info, always read his links Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 14 hours ago, swimmer25k said: Not until just now. I incorrectly assumed that the link was to the graphic he posted. Great info. Thanks everyone. My bad - I originally was just going to post the link. I then realized that I could post a screen shot of the wing and stabilator tips directly (I haven't settled on a Photobucket substitute yet) and answer the other question so I just added a cryptic comment about the afterburner and what's worse, after the link rather than before it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Some info as well as cockpit pics can be seen here: http://aviationarchives.blogspot.ca/2016/02/f-4-blue-angel-configuration-flight.html Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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