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TaiidanTomcat

It's 2017 and the Army still can't decide on uniforms

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

Moving forward.  Ike jacket (and a leather "bomber" jacket) might end up being optional items.   All sounds good in concept, just waiting to see how the Army manages to screw things up.

 

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/11/03/army-close-finalizing-pinks-greens-uniform-all-soldiers.html

 

 

 

 

Soon

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The bomber jacket concept is especially appealing.   Assume they'll let the boys customize their jackets, certainly shouldn't be any PC issues.

 

Image result for Bomber Jacket WWII Art

 

image.jpeg.e96d4bb1c2cb589268a220dd407243e1.jpeg

 

 

Image result for Bomber Jacket WWII Art

Edited by 11bee

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LOL, BigAssBird on the last one... (written in German).

 

 

HAJO

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4 hours ago, 11bee said:

The bomber jacket concept is especially appealing.   Assume they'll let the boys customize their jackets, certainly shouldn't be any PC issues.

 

Image result for Bomber Jacket WWII Art

 

image.jpeg.e96d4bb1c2cb589268a220dd407243e1.jpeg

 

 

Image result for Bomber Jacket WWII Art

Not a chance they’ll let us customize them.  Pinks and greens look good but I’m sick of buying new dress uniforms.

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4 hours ago, Hajo L. said:

LOL, BigAssBird on the last one... (written in German).

 

 

HAJO

Lol.   Had no idea what that meant.   Style points awarded to that crew!   

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And it's official   On Veteran's Day, the Army announces that Pink and Greens will be the new dress uniform.   

 

I like it, nice throwback to WW2.  Now that just have to can that silly black beret (or just give it back to the Rangers, who apparently are one of the very small set of troops who actually know how to wear a beret properly). 

 

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/11/11/for-veterans-day-the-army-has-a-present-a-long-awaited-new-service-uniform/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Socialflow+ARM&fbclid=IwAR2Al1q-ar1CzP1RwUd2Bg2MFtQ6e4WY4nava7UrZQKLtCWBAzU_MgpHk6I

 

55V34D76TZGNTM32OQEEPE6NNI.jpg

Edited by 11bee

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Just now, 11bee said:

And it's official   On Veteran's Day, the Army announces that Pink and Greens will be the new dress uniform.   

 

I like it, nice throwback to WW2.  Now that just have to can that silly black beret (or just give it back to the Rangers, who apparently are one of the very small set of troops who actually know how to wear a beret properly). 

 

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/11/11/for-veterans-day-the-army-has-a-present-a-long-awaited-new-service-uniform/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Socialflow+ARM&fbclid=IwAR2Al1q-ar1CzP1RwUd2Bg2MFtQ6e4WY4nava7UrZQKLtCWBAzU_MgpHk6I

 

55V34D76TZGNTM32OQEEPE6NNI.jpg

The enthusiastic me says it's great. The bitter jaded me says it yet another chapter in a farce.

 

I am bittersweet

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On 11/5/2017 at 7:26 AM, 11bee said:

... just waiting to see how the Army manages to screw things up.

I wonder how many civilians understand the subtle appearing significance of that not being worded as "... just waiting to see if the Army manages to screw things up."

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I think most active duty guys in the Navy are sick of the constant changes for no reason functional reason, so I would assume Army is the same. I can't say that I was excited to drop $600 to look like I am a Jarhead. But, maybe it makes the young guys feel cool. It just makes me lament all the models that could have been...

 

Dave

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Just now, parche said:

I think most active duty guys in the Navy are sick of the constant changes for no reason functional reason, ...

I wonder if it is a thing for each generation, in 1980s when Dad was still USN there were a bunch of uniform changes.

I remember him commenting that one fabric was disagreeable because it felt like it was just about to burst in to flames while you wore it in boiler spaces aboard ship.

Dad retired in 1986 and my brother and his boys are all Army so I don't know the history of Navy uniform tinkering since then.

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48 minutes ago, parche said:

I think most active duty guys in the Navy are sick of the constant changes for no reason functional reason, so I would assume Army is the same. I can't say that I was excited to drop $600 to look like I am a Jarhead. But, maybe it makes the young guys feel cool. It just makes me lament all the models that could have been...

 

Dave

I didn't know the Navy did away with the annual uniform allowance, which is supposed to be used for new uniforms, not to buy models.

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38 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

I didn't know the Navy did away with the annual uniform allowance, which is supposed to be used for new uniforms, not to buy models.

The enlisted sailors still have the allowance, but it really doesn't pay for much. They do give them a one time payment for uniforms each time we pull this uniform swap, but it still isn't enough to cover the total change out. And for officers, nada.

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, parche said:

The enlisted sailors still have the allowance, but it really doesn't pay for much. They do give them a one time payment for uniforms each time we pull this uniform swap, but it still isn't enough to cover the total change out. And for officers, nada.

 

Dave

 

And people complain about LM taking advantage...

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1 hour ago, parche said:

The enlisted sailors still have the allowance, but it really doesn't pay for much. They do give them a one time payment for uniforms each time we pull this uniform swap, but it still isn't enough to cover the total change out. And for officers, nada.

 

Dave

 The uniform allowance s enough to get at least 3 uniforms and as for Officer's, they get paid enough and don't need an allowance.:thumbsup:

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Just now, GW8345 said:

 The uniform allowance s enough to get at least 3 uniforms and as for Officer's, they get paid enough and don't need an allowance.:thumbsup:

I'll disagree on the size of the allowance... Especially when you add in parka, fleece, etc that you need in some climates. And I always enjoy the argument that officers get paid enough so it doesn't matter...

 

Dave

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A bit of a tangent but it does put a perspective on military pay and expenses: even junior officers with families could qualify.

And I remember that conversation being had at home in 1980s when Dad was a senior officer and responsible for people who could qualify, but of course he couldn't write a few extra hundred dollars in to their paychecks.

Quote

 

According to a 2016 report from the Government Accountability Office, more than 23,000 active-duty troops used the food stamp program in 2013, the last year for which such information was available.

The data on how many troops use SNAP are notoriously difficult to track, in part because the U.S. Department of Agriculture, which manages SNAP, does not share the data with the Defense Department. (In fact, data published by the USDA says that about 2,000 military members used the program in 2013, in direct contradiction to the information given to the GAO. We don't know why.)

 

https://www.military.com/paycheck-chronicles/2018/02/21/why-do-military-members-qualify-food-stamps.html

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51 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

 The uniform allowance s enough to get at least 3 uniforms and as for Officer's, they get paid enough and don't need an allowance.:thumbsup:

 

 

TDL5LEQ.gif

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2 hours ago, parche said:

I'll disagree on the size of the allowance... Especially when you add in parka, fleece, etc that you need in some climates. And I always enjoy the argument that officers get paid enough so it doesn't matter...

 

Dave

Parka, Fleece and etc are all issued in boot camp, if they are in need of replacement than that's on the Sailor.

 

Also, a lot of commands will provide uniform items such as jackets, gloves, boots, coverall, jerseys, dirty work pants, etc are "organizational clothing".

 

Here's what is required for a full sea bag, all items are issued in boot camp.

https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/Chapter1/Pages/SeabagActive.aspx

 

As for pay,

 

https://militarybenefits.info/2019-military-pay-charts/

 

Notice an O-1 makes twice as much as an E-1 and an O-4 (over 20) makes almost twice as much as a Chief (Over 20) so please don't tell me that Officers don't get paid enough compared to Enlist.

 

Now, before people start jumping all over me, I'm not saying that the military is paid enough, they are not. But when you compare enlisted to officer pay, officers are generally paid twice as much as enlisted and that does not include special pay and allowances. IMO, we are underpaying our military folks and think (not trying to get political here) that the military should be paid more than our elected officials.

 

GW

AOC(AW) USN Ret.

 

 

Edited by GW8345

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14 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Parka, Fleece and etc are all issued in boot camp, if they are in need of replacement than that's on the Sailor.

 

Also, a lot of commands will provide uniform items such as jackets, gloves, boots, coverall, jerseys, dirty work pants, etc are "organizational clothing".

 

Here's what is required for a full sea bag, all items are issued in boot camp.

https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/Chapter1/Pages/SeabagActive.aspx

 

As for pay,

 

https://militarybenefits.info/2019-military-pay-charts/

 

Notice an O-1 makes twice as much as an E-1 and an O-4 (over 20) makes almost twice as much as a Chief (Over 20) so please don't tell me that Officers don't get paid enough compared to Enlist.

 

Now, before people start jumping all over me, I'm not saying that the military is paid enough, they are not. But when you compare enlisted to officer pay, officers are generally paid twice as much as enlisted and that does not include special pay and allowances. IMO, we are underpaying our military folks and think (not trying to get political here) that the military should be paid more than our elected officials.

 

GW

AOC(AW) USN Ret.

 

 

 

Define "enough"?? 

 

And you can be an E-1 in the navy with a GED. Officers need a degree right? 

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20 hours ago, GW8345 said:

Parka, Fleece and etc are all issued in boot camp, if they are in need of replacement than that's on the Sailor.

 

Also, a lot of commands will provide uniform items such as jackets, gloves, boots, coverall, jerseys, dirty work pants, etc are "organizational clothing".

 

Here's what is required for a full sea bag, all items are issued in boot camp.

https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/support/uniforms/uniformregulations/Chapter1/Pages/SeabagActive.aspx

 

As for pay,

 

https://militarybenefits.info/2019-military-pay-charts/

 

Notice an O-1 makes twice as much as an E-1 and an O-4 (over 20) makes almost twice as much as a Chief (Over 20) so please don't tell me that Officers don't get paid enough compared to Enlist.

 

Now, before people start jumping all over me, I'm not saying that the military is paid enough, they are not. But when you compare enlisted to officer pay, officers are generally paid twice as much as enlisted and that does not include special pay and allowances. IMO, we are underpaying our military folks and think (not trying to get political here) that the military should be paid more than our elected officials.

 

GW

AOC(AW) USN Ret.

 

 

Chief, not trying to say that officers don't get paid enough compared to enlisted, but our costs certainly are higher which you undoubtedly saw when you put on your anchors. I know I get paid a ton more than my sailors, but that doesn't mean that having to drop $600 is not a painful hit especially for my JOs. Also, for all my Sailors who were out of boot camp with blue camo stuff, they didn't get anything that covered the cost of the green camo stuff for cold weather that they just had to buy as we changed homes to Connecticut. It saddens me, as I am sure it did you, that I have to tell my department heads and department Chiefs to have their Chiefs take their Sailors to Navy Marine Corps Relief for loans. I agree with you completely that enlisted don't get paid enough for the work they have to put in. 

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, parche said:

Chief, not trying to say that officers don't get paid enough compared to enlisted, but our costs certainly are higher which you undoubtedly saw when you put on your anchors. I know I get paid a ton more than my sailors, but that doesn't mean that having to drop $600 is not a painful hit especially for my JOs. Also, for all my Sailors who were out of boot camp with blue camo stuff, they didn't get anything that covered the cost of the green camo stuff for cold weather that they just had to buy as we changed homes to Connecticut. It saddens me, as I am sure it did you, that I have to tell my department heads and department Chiefs to have their Chiefs take their Sailors to Navy Marine Corps Relief for loans. I agree with you completely that enlisted don't get paid enough for the work they have to put in. 

 

Dave

I agree that everyone in the military does not get paid enough for what they are doing and I agree that having to buy new uniforms can be a little painful but the switch over to the Type III is still in the transition period for another year. Sailor have two years (the USN is in the middle of the transition period) to switch over to the new uniforms, no one is expecting a Sailor to have a complete set of Type III's immediately. Sailors need to be smart and not try to buy a new sea bag at one time, I didn't when I put on my Anchors. When I was pinned I got what I needed and picked up a few pieces every month, I didn't try to eat the whole whale at one time.

 

And trust me, I've had to take my share of Sailors to NMCR and when NMCR won't help them, I did. As I told my Sailors when I was asked how many kids I had, "37, 2 I fathered, 35 I adopted".

 

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On 11/12/2018 at 6:39 AM, southwestforests said:

A bit of a tangent but it does put a perspective on military pay and expenses: even junior officers with families could qualify.

And I remember that conversation being had at home in 1980s when Dad was a senior officer and responsible for people who could qualify, but of course he couldn't write a few extra hundred dollars in to their paychecks.

https://www.military.com/paycheck-chronicles/2018/02/21/why-do-military-members-qualify-food-stamps.html

 

Completely agree, especially in regards to the junior enlisted pay. However, on the flip side, we need to have a serious review/discussion on where and how we classify war zones and the associated benefits, especially on the tax front, that goes with that. I know O-4s and O-5s claiming earned income credit because they're in a "war zone" which in fact is a US embassy in places such as Qatar or the UAE, where they live with their families in government provided houses and live normal everyday lives. Or one only need to look at the lines of C-17s or C-5s that magically show up on the last day of a month and then leave the first day of the month, again in places where no one is being shot at and in the case of the UAE, is a major tourist hub, just so they can get tax free status for the entire month. All while sailors are on cruise away from their families and soldiers/marines are deployed down range in legitimate war zones yet receiving the same benefit. 

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