Fiona Holden Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Thank you Floyd both for the welcome and the info as always. always find this with modelling, trying to make the best of a kit can open a can of worms, slightly off topic but it is th same with the Revell 1:700 RMS Olympic having to cross kit and modify even getting the best books and references don‘t always show what you need! so atleast doing then from the real mission and the film will cover all the bases hopefully! Fiona X Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robbfladry Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 On 12/19/2017 at 1:29 PM, hawkwrench said: I've thrown a bone to Mr. Fladry. Now the wait begins for a reply. Tim Hey Tim.. did you ever get in touch with him? I might be able to make that happen... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted September 9, 2018 Author Share Posted September 9, 2018 On 9/5/2018 at 9:44 PM, robbfladry said: Hey Tim.. did you ever get in touch with him? I might be able to make that happen... No, he never responded. If you can make it happen, that would be awesome!!! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robbfladry Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 On 9/8/2018 at 7:32 PM, hawkwrench said: No, he never responded. If you can make it happen, that would be awesome!!! Tim Well, seeing as I talk to him daily, yeah can make that happen. He just retired from civilian life so he has a little extra time on his hands. Let me know what’s the best way to put you in contact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 PM sent. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robbfladry Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Email sent. I’ll follow up with him in the morning. Hope it works out for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 Thank you. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ328 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Just stumbled across this forum and thread. My father in law was a little bird pilot in the 160th in MOG. (MH’s). If there’s anything I can ask him, let me know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, DJ328 said: Just stumbled across this forum and thread. My father in law was a little bird pilot in the 160th in MOG. (MH’s). If there’s anything I can ask him, let me know. We are always looking for new photos, but what I want at Werner's Wings is to verify tail numbers and crews if he can remember them Floyd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 hours ago, DJ328 said: Just stumbled across this forum and thread. My father in law was a little bird pilot in the 160th in MOG. (MH’s). If there’s anything I can ask him, let me know. First off, thank your Father in law all he's done for our country. 2nd, as Floyd mentioned, any pictures he has of 160th helos (both in Somalia and elsewhere) are always appreciated. This thread and the two other pinned threads on Littlebirds are pretty much the premier source for info on these subjects. Nothing else on the internet comes close. Always looking to add new info / pictures to them. Specifically, if your father in law can add any information on a couple of non-standard Littlebirds that were apparently part of this operation. They appear to be a type that was never publicly identified as flying with the 160th, could be that they were assigned to another unit that was supporting the operation. See below, this is the only picture that shows these two helos. Any additional pics of them or details would be hugely appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 John, I doubt any info will be released on those Little Birds. I've been told a little about them, and it was hush-hush stuff between my source and my self. No chance of releasing that info brother. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, hawkwrench said: John, I doubt any info will be released on those Little Birds. I've been told a little about them, and it was hush-hush stuff between my source and my self. No chance of releasing that info brother. Tim Hi Tim, I figured it never hurts to ask. It’s been a few decades, at some point in time everything becomes unclassified. If it’s still sensitive, certainly don’t want it posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 Who knows, maybe Mr. Fladry will have some unclassified pics of Little Birds or even a story or two! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ328 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I’ll scroll through the entire thread when I have some spare time, but what was nonstandard above the two in question? And were they MH’s or AH’s? He’s certainly be in a position to know if they were special in some way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, DJ328 said: I’ll scroll through the entire thread when I have some spare time, but what was nonstandard above the two in question? And were they MH’s or AH’s? He’s certainly be in a position to know if they were special in some way. They were neither MH or AH''s. Check out the tails, those tails were typically only seen on MD530s (I''m not an expert, might be off on the designation). Regardless, they were never seen on Army H-6's of any sub-variant. The general consensus seems to be that those two helo's weren't 160th birds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DJ328 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, 11bee said: They were neither MH or AH''s. Check out the tails, those tails were typically only seen on MD530s (I''m not an expert, might be off on the designation). Regardless, they were never seen on Army H-6's of any sub-variant. The general consensus seems to be that those two helo's weren't 160th birds. Are they the 2 birds with the rotors folded back and the two thingys on the horizontal stabilizers? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 They weren't 160th SOAR little birds, just sayin! Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Is it too much to go ahead and assume they belonged to the CIA then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Whiskey said: Is it too much to go ahead and assume they belonged to the CIA then? Yes, it is too much make make that assumption. Lots of other organizations doing “black” flight ops besides the CIA. Here is one of the best online resources I've seen that detail these various units. http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/8125/shedding-some-light-on-the-pentag?iid=sr-link3 With regard to the two helicopters in the picture above - I'm sure both are/were highly classified but the fact that they were left outdoors and were accessible enough to be photographed as the backdrop for a "hero" shot lets me think that there may be other pics out there that might have them visible in more detail. Given that more and more vets of this operation are posting their pictures online, hopefully we'll get some more info on these helos in the near future. Edited September 12, 2018 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Whiskey Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 According to that’s article yes, there could be other organizations that operated those helicopters but it still may have been the CIA. I’m not trying to say that it is or was, just seems like a logical choice. As far as other groups using aircraft for clandestine operations, that’s common knowledge for those of us that have been in and around the War on Terror for years now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, Whiskey said: According to that’s article yes, there could be other organizations that operated those helicopters but it still may have been the CIA. I’m not trying to say that it is or was, just seems like a logical choice. We'll probably never know. That being said, my money is that those helos were part of a unit that directly or indirectly was overseen by the Army. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 Maybe someday more info will come out or become declassified, but don't hold your breath. From what I was told, it was secret squirrel stuff and that's all that can be said. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 The CIA's Special Activities Division were in Somalia before and during the Battle of the Black Sea. Perhaps these 530Fs were deployed to directly support these teams when required. The questions remains surrounding who was flying these helicopters, Echo Squadron or perhaps a CIA Aviation Unit. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) On 9/16/2018 at 8:23 PM, Loach Driver said: The CIA's Special Activities Division were in Somalia before and during the Battle of the Black Sea. Perhaps these 530Fs were deployed to directly support these teams when required. The questions remains surrounding who was flying these helicopters, Echo Squadron or perhaps a CIA Aviation Unit. LD. I was thinking more along the lines of Task Force Orange (or whatever they called themselves back then) SIGINT platforms. With the large number of 160th H-6's deployed, not sure it would make sense to have yet another unit flying the same mission? Surely the 160th could provide whatever support those "extra special" people needed for assault transport / attack. Edited September 22, 2018 by 11bee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrankenPz Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 G'day All Just joined the forum after seeing this post - A lot of good information. I just picked up the Kittyhawk AH/MH with crew, and will most likely do one of each (Star 41 & Barber 51) as well as an MH 60 (either Super 62 or 64) I'm wondering if anyone has some detail pics of the M134 mounts for the -60s that were i use at the time - I have detail pics of the external mounts use for both M134 and M2s but i'm not certain whether these were the ones in use at the time of Gothic Serpent. Also, base on the pics her & in other places, the crew included by KH aren't correct for the era - they have MOLLE plate carriers and fairly generic pouches - some work to be done on them! Stay safe & happy modelling Aidan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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