Loach Driver Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) On 09/12/2017 at 2:55 PM, 11bee said: Not sure if you guys have seen this site - I just stumbled upon it. Pretty good source of OGS pictures. Mostly geared towards the operators / rangers and their gear but also has some decent shots of some of the helos. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/270465-operation-gothic-serpent-black-hawk-down/ Post 174 in the above link. Something new in that photo that we have never seen before regarding Gothic Serpent Little Birds. Were Seaspray/Echo Squadron in Somalia? LD. See post 104 too. Edited December 11, 2017 by Loach Driver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, Loach Driver said: Post 174 in the above link. Something new in that photo that we have never seen before regarding Gothic Serpent Little Birds. Were Seaspray/Echo Squadron in Somalia? LD. See post 104 too. Good eyes LD... That tail fin struck me as being odd but I didn't pay any other attention to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 2 hours ago, 11bee said: Good eyes LD... That tail fin struck me as being odd but I didn't pay any other attention to it. I'm not picking it up. What is unique that I missed? Floyd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HeavyArty Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 27 minutes ago, Floyd S. Werner, Jr. said: I'm not picking it up. What is unique that I missed? Floyd Me either. It looks like a standard AH/MH-6J "T"-tail to me as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 34 minutes ago, Floyd S. Werner, Jr. said: I'm not picking it up. What is unique that I missed? Floyd LD posted the pic in the non-160th Little Bird thread. I can't link from the device I am currently one but feel free to check out it out. Doesn't look like a standard H-6J tail to me. If anyone's ever seen an Army H-6 with this type of tail, please post some pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silva963 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Looks like a 369/500e tail. Haven’t seen the on a US H-6. Very interesting.. nice catch! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Gents, table for MH-60s updated - MH-60A/L Gothic Serpent I added crew names and what happend to some :( Also, I did a small table for the AH/MH-6Js - AH/MH-6J Again, any updates/corrections etc are appreciated Regards Jakub Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HeavyArty Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 On the MH-60 sheet, you have your Super 62s swapped. Rude Dude was the original Super 62 and down for maintenance due to an engine swap. Black Widow became Super 62 when the crew jumped in it and used it instead of Rude Dude. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Floyd S. Werner, Jr. Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 2 hours ago, JakubJakepilot said: Also, I did a small table for the AH/MH-6Js - AH/MH-6J Again, any updates/corrections etc are appreciated Star Flight- Some serial numbers I've been able to pull off of photos. MH-6 25371 (May have had Dagger on the nose) MH-6 2365? MH-6 648 MH-6 318 (had Dagger on the nose) No MH-6Js had the downturned exhaust Barber Flight- 51 through 54 AH-6J 25362 (Harley Davidson emblem on nose) AH-6J 23635 (Moe Betta on the nose) AH-6j 25348 AH-6J Unknown Randy Jones AH-6J did have a FLIR. Only one AH with it, not sure which one is his. All AH-6Js had the downturned exhausts All AH-6Js had the internal extra fuel tank All AH-6Js had two M-134s and two M-260 seven shot pods Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, JakubJakepilot said: Also, I did a small table for the AH/MH-6Js - AH/MH-6J Again, any updates/corrections etc are appreciated Regards Jakub MH-6. Star 41 was crewed by CWO4 Keith Jones and CWO3 Karl Meier. Keith Jones deployed from the aircraft and collected two injured crew from first crash site. Flew the aircraft in this scene in "Blackhawk Down". "648" was 81-23648. Another MH-6 present in Somalia was 81-2365X (last digit not visible in the photo I have). AH-6. The crews for the AH-6 Little Birds are believed to be as follows; Barber 51; CWO5 Randy Jones and CWO3 Hal Wade. Barber 52; CWO3 Larry Kulsrud and CWO2 Paul White. Barber 53; CWO2 Tom Rinderer and CWO2 Jerry Harp. Barber 54; Captain John Harrison and CWO3 Chris Smith. Other Little Birds believed to have been present in Somalia and have flown as AH-6G Little Birds are; 319; 84-24319361; 90-25361 362; 90-25362 (Harley Davidson decal on nose, no FLIR fitted). One AH-6G, Moe Betta artwork, 25348 (possibly 90-25348) had a FLIR fitted. If Randy Jones' LB was the only one fitted with a FLIR, then it appears that 90-25348 Moe Betta was his ship and therefore was Barber 51. Video footage showing an AH-6 Little Bird in the air on the 3rd of October shows it without a FLIR. It appears the majority of the AH-6 Little Birds flew with the FLIR mount fitted but with the FLIR turret removed, as stated in Floyd's preceding post. LD. Edit regarding Floyd's post. MH-6 25371 (One list of serials I have for the LB fleet, from the internet) shows the only "317" in the list as being 95-25371. It depends on how accurate the list is!) MH-6 2365? MH-6 648 (81-23648) MH-6 318 (I can find no Little Bird with the serial "318" in any of the lists I have) One of the serial lists I have also states that 81-23635 was a Gothic Serpent participant and flew as Star 44. As always, we are left with as many questions as answers when we examine the LB fleet. Photo evidence is probably the best piece of evidence that will prove to be the most reliable. Edited December 13, 2017 by Loach Driver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
usmcski6502 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Jakub, I can't open the tables for some reason. Any chance you could IM them to me? I'd really like to see them! Thanks! Ski Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 14 hours ago, usmcski6502 said: Jakub, I can't open the tables for some reason. Any chance you could IM them to me? I'd really like to see them! Thanks! Ski Hello gents, moved the files to a better location and updated them with the latest info. As Loach Driver said, there are many gaps regarding serial numbers, versions, callsigns etc... AH/MH-6J MH-60A/L Gothic Serpent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) Here is another photo that I first saw on the US Militaria Forum. It shows 81-2365X. It might be just after the 160th arrived in Somalia because this looked like a fairly clean machine with very little dust in evidence. Can anyone ID the pilots? If we can, we can probably assign a callsign to this ship. The markings are interesting too. The "UNITED STATES ARMY" titles are there on the tailboom but there is very little contrast between the markings and the general paint scheme. No additional fuel tank fitted either. Interestingly, the size of the serial number is larger and in a lighter colour than the serial number on 81-23635. LD. Edited December 15, 2017 by Loach Driver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) Could this be another photo of Super 63? Can anyone extract and save the photo from this page? http://www.gettyimages.ie/detail/news-photo/group-of-u-s-army-rangers-sit-in-the-door-of-a-u-s-black-news-photo/51426588?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#group-of-us-army-rangers-sit-in-the-door-of-a-us-black-hawk-at-28-picture-id51426588 LD. Edit; Managed to save a copy of it but too big to attach to this post. Edited December 14, 2017 by Loach Driver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) Here's a cropped photo of it. I spoke with my Gothic Serpent source and he told me it could be Super 63. And that it probably wasn't the Rangers, but "other" operators going up for a recon flight. Looking at the array of antennas compared to my private pics, it's either 63 or 64. 64 AFAIK did not have the bottom FM tailboom antenna so it's probably 63. Tim Edited December 15, 2017 by hawkwrench Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 I adjusted the lighting in the pic and you can see the grim reaper figure. It's 63. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Good stuff. Piece by piece, we are building up a better picture of the GS Fleet. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Another pic of MH-60, no idea which serial. MH-60 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 3 hours ago, JakubJakepilot said: Another pic of MH-60, no idea which serial. MH-60 Could it be Super 62? There is another photo of Super 62 parked up, folded-up like the ship in that photo, back at base after taking an RPG in the fuselage side. Also, was "Armageddon" a Gothic Serpent Blackhawk or was it one of the MH-60Ls used in the film in 2001? LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HeavyArty Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Armageddon was one of the MH-60Ls used in the filming of Black Hawk Down. It was not present in Somalia for the actual mission in '93. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 That helo with the folded blades is not Super 62 for a number of reasons. 1- Their is some type of tan/yellow art on the cowling, 62 had black artwork. 2-If you look at the cargo door window. You can make out a "6". 62-black widow had no chalk #'s on her windows. 3-After the RPG hit, black widow 62 was loaded on a C-5 and taken back to Campbell. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Gino and Tim, thanks. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted December 16, 2017 Author Share Posted December 16, 2017 After studying Jakob's pic, I'd say she's Super 67. 61&64 were shot down. 63 didn't have chalk #'s. 62's artwork was green, 65, 66, had large tan artwork. This artwork is small and 68 had a hoist which they leave on during loadout so that leaves 67. Tim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) On 12/14/2017 at 3:23 PM, Loach Driver said: Here is another photo that I first saw on the US Militaria Forum. It shows 81-2365X. It might be just after the 160th arrived in Somalia because this looked like a fairly clean machine with very little dust in evidence. Can anyone ID the pilots? If we can, we can probably assign a callsign to this ship. The markings are interesting too. The "UNITED STATES ARMY" titles are there on the tailboom but there is very little contrast between the markings and the general paint scheme. No additional fuel tank fitted either. Interestingly, the size of the serial number is larger and in a lighter colour than the serial number on 81-23635. LD. According to a 160th pilot who flew on Oct. 3rd and who I talk to from time to time told me the pilot's names were CWO 5 Bob Fladry and CWO 5 Rob Witzler. The callsign of their helo was Star 43 and the tail # was 653. Hope this helps! Edited December 18, 2017 by hawkwrench Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hawkwrench Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) Here's a quote from Loach Driver from 2014. It solves the crew names and Star aircraft. We know 4 four-man Delta Chalks went to the target building on October 3rd on four MH-6Hs. Chalk 1 (Delta) flew in on Star 41 and Star 43 is mentioned in the book "In the company of heroes (Mike Durant)", so it can probably be assumed that the four MH-6 lift ships were Star 41, 42, 43 and 44. Karl Maier and Keith Jones flew Star 41 and were the crew that went into the Wolcott crash site. The serial number for Star 41 has not yet been identified. According to "The Night Stalkers (Durant/Hartov)", Tom Wiese and Mike O'Connor carried Chalk 2 (Star 42), Bob Fladry and Bob Witzler carried in Chalk 3 (Star 43) and Joe Spencer and Ron Cugno transported Chalk 4 (Star 44). Star 43 had to do a go-around because of the dust at the target building and the "60 Minutes" video footage shows these four lift Little Birds arriving at the target building and Star 41's left turn on arrival at the target building, just as it is described in Mike Durant's book. Tim Edited December 18, 2017 by hawkwrench Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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