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Operation Gothic Serpent Aircraft references


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14 hours ago, hawkwrench said:

According to a 160th pilot who flew on Oct. 3rd and who I talk to from time to time told me the pilot's names were CWO 5 Bob Fladry and CWO 5 Rob Witzler. The callsign of their helo was Star 43 and the tail # was 653. Hope this helps!

So Star 43 is 81-23653. Pages updated with the latest info. Thanks guys !!!

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Star 43 identified! :nanner:Great work, Hawk. 

 

I've had a further look at my photos saved over the years of GS MH-6 Lift Birds. I have two further photos (slightly too large to upload) with some of the crew members identified. One photo has been posted in the past on the AH-6C thread and shows an MH-6 with both pilots, four D-boys and the crew chief, identified by name, standing at the nose of the aircraft. I then have a second photo which shows two of the Delta members, from the previous photo, on the plank, possibly waiting for start-up. This photo shows the serial as 23635 which I believe is 81-23635. In the group photo, the pilots are identified as CWO5 Joe Spencer and Major Ron Cugno. Marrying the information in the two photos  with the known call signs for the 160th crews, it appears that 81-23635 is Star 44. The two photos and the information relating to the persons depicted in the images came from a now-defunct military forum so it isn't possible to re-visit the original source for this information. Hopefully this information can be verified by a more knowledgeable source. "635" has both the bat-wing antenna and the hockey stick antenna fitted together on top of the tailboom. The serial number is relatively small and is in black while the usual "UNITED STATES ARMY" markings on the tailboom appear to be absent. I think this machine is on Floyd's decal sheet. 

 

The photo below is possibly yet another aircraft and crew not yet identified. It doesn't have the hockey stick antenna on the tailboom or the small horizontal blade antenna on the forward tailboom/rear fuselage so it doesn't appear to be 81-23635 and lacks the nose-number of 81-23648. Can anyone enhance the image and read the serial number? It is visible to a degree but can't be read. 

 

16700u8.jpg.8f6f33425961e1f2e144c3c2c9fcd459.jpg

 

LD.

Edited by Loach Driver
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OK my source has said that Moe Betta was Barber 51  Piloted by Randy Jones and Hal (?).  Apparently the plank system that is in the Kitty Hawk kit is one that didn't come into existence until 1997.  The Dragon plank and ammo cans are more accurate for the GS time frame.  Also the mini-guns ejector chutes are like the original ones in Vietnam (Werner's Wings 35-03) style. The FLIR monitors are slightly deeper than the KH offering which are a newer type.  

 

To answer the question on what is on the tails of the MHs, what you see on the tail are cushions used for loadouts to protect the trim tabs.  They use to just 100 mile an hour tape them. 

 

Also ALL AH-6 and MH-6s used in Somalia were J models.  Confirmed by my source.

Floyd

Edited by Floyd S. Werner, Jr.
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2 hours ago, Floyd S. Werner, Jr. said:

Also ALL AH-6 and MH-6s used in Somalia were J models.  Confirmed by my source.

Floyd

 

Floyd, thanks for the confirmation on Moe Betta. Could you ask your source, when you speak to him next, if he could describe, in basic terms, what the differences were between the MH-6H and MH-6J and the AH-6G and AH-6J? I thought I had an idea of what each version looked like but with the GS LBs all being J-models, I am now stumped! Thanks.

 

Apologies for the thread creep but, hawkwrench, if your contact is, in turn, in contact with Bob Fladry, could he ask him if he can recall the serial number of the MH-6E he flew on the Iran Ijr mission in 1987 (Op. Earnest Will/Prime Chance). It was in a very interesting configuration and is one of the Little Birds I'd love to build. Cheers.

 

LD. 

Edited by Loach Driver
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2 hours ago, Loach Driver said:

 

Floyd, thanks for the confirmation on Moe Betta. Could you ask your source, when you speak to him next, if he could describe, in basic terms, what the differences were between the MH-6H and MH-6J and the AH-6G and AH-6J? I thought I had an idea of what each version looked like but with the GS LBs all being J-models, I am now stumped! Thanks.

 

Apologies for the thread creep but, hawkwrench, if your contact is, in turn, in contact with Bob Fladry, could he ask him if he can recall the serial number of the MH-6E he flew on the Iran Ijr mission in 1987 (Op. Earnest Will/Prime Chance). It was in a very interesting configuration and is one of the Little Birds I'd love to build. Cheers.

 

LD. 

Will do.

 

Also when you have Fladry ask him what version and tail number was used on the Kurt Muse Acid Gambit mission.  I think it was an E but no serial number

Floyd

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Thanks, hawkwrench. It would be greatly appreciated.

 

I often wonder what these former Night Stalkers think when they get a phone call or email out of the blue from someone with a question from a scale modelling forum and then find themselves inundated with an avalanche of queries, all the time having to bear OPSEC in mind? GT really embraced the forum and continues to do so :thumbsup: and I think we have had one or two other Night Stalkers here too. To get Robert R. Fladry on board would be a major coup. 

 

A name-change for this thread would probably better reflect what is going on in it now. It is great to be able to pool together as much information as possible on the Super 6x, Star 4x and Barber 5x fleets in one place. 

 

LD.

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Since this thread has now expanded to all GS aircraft / helos, wondering if anyone has decent shots of non-160th helos that support this mission.  Especially would like to see some of the medevac Hueys / 10th MTN AH-1's and I seem to recall reading somewhere that a couple of OH-58's (D models?) were also deployed for surveillance.    Of course if anyone has pictures of those CIA/FSD MD530's, I'm sure we'd love to see them as well!

 

Also on the wish list, more pics of AH-6's that show the downward exhaust diffuser.  I thought someone also mentioned that some of the H-6's had the older side-mounted exhaust diffusers as well, identical to what the AH-6C had. I didn't think that those later H-6's could use those.   Don't think there has ever been a pic of one, so I'm especially interested in this subject.

 

 

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13 hours ago, 11bee said:

Since this thread has now expanded to all GS aircraft / helos, wondering if anyone has decent shots of non-160th helos that support this mission.  Especially would like to see some of the medevac Hueys / 10th MTN AH-1's and I seem to recall reading somewhere that a couple of OH-58's (D models?) were also deployed for surveillance.    Of course if anyone has pictures of those CIA/FSD MD530's, I'm sure we'd love to see them as well!

 

Also on the wish list, more pics of AH-6's that show the downward exhaust diffuser.  I thought someone also mentioned that some of the H-6's had the older side-mounted exhaust diffusers as well, identical to what the AH-6C had. I didn't think that those later H-6's could use those.   Don't think there has ever been a pic of one, so I'm especially interested in this subject.

 

 

One of the Hueys from the other forum thread - index.php?app=core&module=attach&section

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Here are some pre-Task Force Ranger US Army helicopters in Somalia.

 

5a3d1aa537a28_2ndofthe25thAttackHelicopterBattalionFortCampbell.jpg.a2fe9030210ee5ea309769d852f4fe76.jpgarticle-1391208-0C48B78100000578-805_468x323.jpg.6e1f745078cbed824be5a11b951c8575.jpg265768_med.jpg.c22cfbb83762928068ec9ad27a8d7a97.jpg

Copyright unknown. Images found on the internet. I have a few other photos too but they all exceed the size limit for posting.:bandhead2:

 

OH-58Ds were there but I know little else beyond that. As far as I know, all the 160th AH-6s deployed were AH-6Js with the C-30 engine. The side-mounted Hughes Blackhole IR exhaust could only be fitted to the C-20B engine and so, I don't believe they were used. 

 

LD.

Edited by Loach Driver
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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/22/2017 at 8:49 AM, Loach Driver said:

Here are some pre-Task Force Ranger US Army helicopters in Somalia.

 

article-1391208-0C48B78100000578-805_468x323.jpg.6e1f745078cbed824be5a11b951c8575.jpg265768_med.jpg.c22cfbb83762928068ec9ad27a8d7a97.jpg

Copyright unknown. Images found on the internet. I have a few other photos too but they all exceed the size limit for posting.:bandhead2:

 

OH-58Ds were there but I know little else beyond that. As far as I know, all the 160th AH-6s deployed were AH-6Js with the C-30 engine. The side-mounted Hughes Blackhole IR exhaust could only be fitted to the C-20B engine and so, I don't believe they were used. 

 

LD.

 

That shot of two AH-1's taxing is interesting as those are S-Mods and not F's. Any idea what time frame that picture was taken? Also I can't figure it out 100% but the shorter of the two Cobra pilots look familiar as well. Floyd, any of those two fellas look familiar to you?

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No neither pilot looks familiar.  I thought it was Reggie Rohrbeck but he was in Germany with me. 

 

As as far as the Mod-🙏Ss go I’m wondering if that was Somalia. I have two friends that were there, neither has pictures thanks to divorces, but they only flew AH-1Fs

Floyd

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just a little more interior layout info. All the MH-60's carried 2 survival kits. All the assault birds either hung them on the crew chief seat frames or crammed them in front of the liferaft in between the raft and the center console. The raft was NOT strapped down. It was heavy enough already, and being crammed in between the crew chief seats made it secure.

All the MH-60's also carried a minimum of 2 and sometimes 3 water jugs. They were jammed in somewhere around the crew chief area so they didn't move around. 

Here's a pic showing the survival kit and water jug. If the bird had the aux tank installed like Super 63 did down in Mogadishu, this was the standard setup. Otherwise the above description applied.

25438421847_5470ba0057_b.jpg

 

 

Tim

Edited by hawkwrench
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  • 5 months later...

Hi all. I‘m new here but have been reading this thread for a while now. Thank you all for such insight into what

 for me is a quagmire to tramp through but finally it seems we are getting there! I would also like to give a shout out to Floyd for putting up with this pest! Hopefully in a few weeks I shall be able to add either my own comments or even post finished Mog models!I am coming from this from a bit of a skew wif angle as I really love the film Black Hawk Down and I started wanting to do the models from the film as I am starting to build aircraft from films but now thanks to all you chaps I am going to attemp the real ones too!

Thanks again for the info.

Fifi X

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