Su-33 R-27 missile question

[twong]

I have the Kinetic 1/48 Su-33 kit and read that they left out two R-27 missiles and two pylons so I bought the Eduard Brassin R-27R/R1 set. When comparing the missiles from the Kinetic kit to the Eduard ones, the Eduard ones are a bit smaller. The pylons are close in size but the Eduard ones are a tiny bit smaller and slightly different shape especially at the rear. Are the Eduard ones supposed to be the same type as in the Kinetic kit or are they different?

Seeing Kinetic only gives two R-27 missiles and only two pylons I was going to use the Eduard set which gives four missiles and four pylons to have a more uniform set. Which size missile is more correct?

 

Which missiles should I be using? If the Kinetic R-27's are more correct, does anyone have two to spare from the Skunk Models Russian missiles set? Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Here is a photo I took comparing the Kinetic and Eduard R-27 missiles. Eduard on the bottom.

 

Here are the two pylons together. Eduard on top.

[Mstor]

The Kinetic missile looks like a R-27ER while the Eduard would be a R-27R. The ER (E for extended) are longer and have greater range. The ERs also have the thicker rear body.

[twong]

6 hours ago, Mstor said:

The Kinetic missile looks like a R-27ER while the Eduard would be a R-27R. The ER (E for extended) are longer and have greater range. The ERs also have the thicker rear body.

Thanks for the info, good to know. Can the R-27's be a mixed load of ER and R on the Su-33? If not then it looks like I got the wrong set

 

Anyone have any Kinetic/Skunk Models 1/48 R-27ER missiles and pylons to trade? I am located in the USA and would like to keep the trade in the USA.

Kinetic/Skunk Models parts are,

K1 for the R-27ER and I need two

J5 for the pylon and I need two

I3 pylon parts and I need two

 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by twong

[MoFo]

11 hours ago, twong said:

 the Eduard ones are a bit smaller.

 

Resin shrinks.  Eduard's resin shrinks more than most.  Typically you would account for this when creating the master, but Eduard don't seem to do this, or do it haphazardly (many of their wheel inserts don't fit their tires, for instance).  Hence, short missiles.

 

I just measured my Eduard and Kinetic missiles (both are R-27ERs), and Eduard's are about 2% too small, all around - about 2mm along the length of the missile.  Kinetic's aren't quite right - they're fractionally too long (.2mm), and a little thin in the expanded rear body, but overall much closer than Eduard's.  From my experience with other Brassin missiles, I'd expect the R-27Rs to be the same.  So if you want accuracy, I'd go with the Kinetic missiles.  If you want detail though, Eduard is much nicer.

 

Also FWIW, it's a *nightmare* trying to fit the vanes to the front of the Eduard missiles, because the slots in the resin body are marginally short.  You've got to either shave down the mounting lugs on the vanes or extend the slots on the missile body, either of which is fiddly and it's difficult to keep everything perfectly aligned.

[twong]

14 hours ago, MoFo said:

 

Thanks for the info! I am looking for the Kinetic/Skunk Models missiles and pylons. I would prefer to keep them more uniform instead of having different size/shape parts. If anyone has any of the Kinetic/Skunk Models R-27ER's and pylons to spare/trade I would greatly appreciate it. I don't want to buy the whole Skunk Models Russian weapons set just for two missiles and two pylons.

 

Kinetic/Skunk Models parts are,

K1 for the R-27ER x 2

J5 for the pylon x 2

I3 pylon parts x 2

[Mstor]

I may be wrong on this, so someone correct me if so, but I don't think that the embarked Su-33s carried more than two R-27s at a time, that plus two or four R-73s. They are severely weight restricted. Can't get off deck with much more. The only pictures of Su-33s I've seen with more ordnance are display birds. So, if you want to show an operational and embarked aircraft, two R-27s is all you need.

[magman2]

Su-33, fully loaded on board the carrier kuznetsov.

[Mstor]

6 hours ago, magman2 said:

Su-33, fully loaded on board the carrier kuznetsov.

.

WOW, I (happily) stand corrected.  Thanks magman2!

[Mstor]

17 hours ago, magman2 said:

Su-33, fully loaded on board the carrier kuznetsov.

Magman2, where did you find this photo? I have been looking high and low and can find no photos of embarked Su-33s with a load-out like the one pictured in your photo. Also, what type of ordnance is that on the centerline? Looks like the tip of a guided bomb of some sort. All the pics I can find show no more than two R-27s and two to four R-73s. Also found pics with two FAB500 on the centerline and two to four R-73s. I, like Twong, would like to be able to load up my Su-33 with more ordnance, but I want it to be a realistic load seen on embarked aircraft.

[magman2]

Hi,  I found the photo on a Russian web site.

I went on Yandex and followed a few links.

 

The centerline has two  more missiles.

The Su-33 uses Full power to takeoff, as the Russians do not use catapults. and most of the time they fly with four missiles.

[stalal]

So then ideally how many missiles Su-33 carries in a typical loadout? 

 

I was considering getting Eduard set but after reading opinions here, I dont want to. I too think that to get two additional missiles, Skunk Models set is too expensive. Also Kinetic kit is not cheap and after paying that much money if you still dont get the most common load out, its quite a pity. 

 

 

[kotey]

At my look 2, maximum 4 R-27, maybe plus 2 R-73. For aircrafts from Syrian raid you can fit two FAB-500 bombs, but it's were placed on same underengine hardpoints, on place of R-27s missiles.

[Mstor]

 

The pics I have been able to find with with 2 FAB-500s have them mounted on the fuselage centerline hardpoints. Here's some pics from aircraft during Syria Ops.

 

[kotey]

As you can see on underengine hardpoints were mounted thrusters for bombs too, as I remember I saw bombs in this position too.

[Mstor]

1 hour ago, kotey said:

As you can see on underengine hardpoints were mounted thrusters for bombs too, as I remember I saw bombs in this position too.

 

Good point, you have good eyes sir ;-)

[MoFo]

3 hours ago, stalal said:

So then ideally how many missiles Su-33 carries in a typical loadout? 

 

 

Typical would be a couple of missiles, at most.  Aircraft don't typically carry full warloads of ordnance - the typical flight is not an active combat mission and even combat missions aren't usually fully loaded.  The Su-27 that intercepted the EP-3 two days ago had 2x R-26R on centreline and 2x R-27T under the wings.  So you'll be fine with whatever is in the box.

 

If you want to build a Syrian Civil War aircraft, that loadout will be different from what is typical, and will depend on the specific mission, but it's more likely that you'd need bombs, rather than more missiles.

 

The aircraft can carry more missiles, and in the past it has carried more missiles, but it's not typical.

[twong]

Thanks again for the great info, greatly appreciated. I am going to load mine similar to the one in the photo Magman posted except none on the wing tip rails.

[stalal]

Other than FAB-500 bombs, which ground attack weapons did Su-33 carry in Syria mission?

[Mstor]

I don't believe that the Su-33 is equipped to deliver smart munitions themselves. I know a few received an update to their bomb delivery systems for more accurate targeting of dumb bombs. I would imagine that if part of a strike package with other aircraft they could deliver smart munitions. Haven't seen any photos of them loaded with any smart bombs during the Syria campaign (which is over for them as the Kuznetsov has left the area already and has headed for home waters).

[kotey]

This system Gefest were tested at Su-24Ms, after this its used at Tu-22M3s, Su-34s, MiG-29SMTs and Su-33. The point of this system - precision check all parameters of flights and send command to bomb rack so in time, so even dumb bond from heights about 3-4 kilometers were hit into circle about 5-6 meters in diameter with probability of rejection about 90%.