Iron Hand A-4's

[11bee]

Been reading "Iron Hand", the history of US SEAD efforts (great book BTW).   Anyway, in it the author mentions that towards the end of the Vietnam War, the Navy modified a small number of A-4's with an undernose housing for additional radar warning receivers.   These A-4's typically flew with 4 Shrikes for anti-SAM work.    Thought it might make for an interesting project, only thing is I can't find any pics of these modified A-4's.   At one point years ago I believe there were a couple of pics posted here on ARC but I'm sure they got nuked by Photobucket.  

 

Any assistance is appreciated. 

[Whiskey]

Ohhh I'd like to see those as well.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Whiskey

[Finn]

Don't know if this is it but compare the under nose fairings of these scooters, from the same squadron:

 

 

Jari

[Rex]

Perfect photo of that mod, Jari.

 

Just offload the bombs and load up 4 Shrikes on NP-505.

 

Keep in mind that the Scooter could carry Shrikes well before that mod, also. Early Skyhawk Iron Hand birds carried Shrikes on the outer wings and SUU-30 CBUs on the inner wings. (around the 1967-68 time period, the time that A-4E carried the insignia on the nose instead of the rear fuselage)

[Tailspin Turtle]

Shrike was originally as simple as Sidewinder, only it detected radar emissions at certain frequencies instead of heat. Just like a Sidewinder, it notified the pilot with a tone in his ear phones when it detected a radar but in addition, provided a bearing to the radar on his Attitude Director Indicator. Because the ADI would jitter back and forth if there were more than one emitter detected, a later improvement provided a separate display of  emitter locations. The final improvement was TIAS (Target Identification and Acquisition System), which replaced the terrain avoidance radar in the nose and provided an independent and more accurate presentation of the electronic order of battle than the antenna in the Shrike. I don't know whether the wider fairing under the nose (where the forward-facing ECM antenna was located) was associated with the installation of TIAS or was simply the final iteration of the ECM suite.

[11bee]

According to the book, that large fairing was specific to those few (I believe only 12-15 aircraft) that had the upgraded RHAW (TIAS) gear.   The equipment was supposed to provide more accurate targeting to the Shrike.  

 

The author also mentioned that originally, Shrike was procured for mounting on early vintage Skyhawks (circa 1964) to assist them with their SIOP nuclear weapon delivery mission.   It was to be used to take out Soviet / Chinese early warning radars.   It only later came into widespread use when SA-2's started destroying large numbers of US aircraft in Vietnam. 

[Tailspin Turtle]

41 minutes ago, 11bee said:

According to the book, that large fairing was specific to those few (I believe only 12-15 aircraft) that had the upgraded RHAW (TIAS) gear.   The equipment was supposed to provide more accurate targeting to the Shrike.  

 

The author also mentioned that originally, Shrike was procured for mounting on early vintage Skyhawks (circa 1964) to assist them with their SIOP nuclear weapon delivery mission.   It was to be used to take out Soviet / Chinese early warning radars.   It only later came into widespread use when SA-2's started destroying large numbers of US aircraft in Vietnam. 

Thanks for that. Semantics maybe, but I'd say that TIAS was not to provide more accurate targeting, per se, but to insure that the Shrike homed in on a pilot-selected radar rather than one of its own choosing.

[Finn]

Not one with the big bulge under the nose but a load of Shrikes and Bullpups with the Target detector device on the nose of the AGM-12 to give it a proximity (airburst) function:

 

 

 

Jari

Edited May 13, 2018 by Finn

[eraucubsfan]

Resurrecting an old thread... I was reading Robert S. "Bo" Smith's memoir and he noted that during AGM-45 Shrike shortages, they would fly the Iron Hand missions with 1 shrike and Zuni rockets on the other.  I was curious if anyone knows if they carried just one LAU-10? Or did they use a TER and have 2?   I think this would be a cool loadout for a A-4 model.  

 

His quote:

" If we had a shortage of Shrike missiles, we flew with one AGM-45 Shrike on one wing and a LAU 10 5" Zuni rocket pod on the other wing."  He does say "a" so maybe that means just one, but still curious  

 

 Note: This is for an A-4C 

[GW8345]

Everything I've read and seen is that they only carried one pod on the right wing pylon, Shrike (with AERO 5B) on the left wing pylon.

[Finn]

Further reading of the Memoir:

 

If we had only one Shrike (due to a shortage of missiles), we could use a 5" Zuni rocket from our LAU 10 pod to simulate a Shrike "down the throat Shrike shot". 

which does indicate just one LAU-10 pod and a bit further down:

 

July 12th- I flew two missions that day
                   The first was an Iron Hand mission in support of a strike at Hai Duong. I expended 8 Zuni rockets from two LAU 10 pods

perhaps no Shrike that mission or he had 1 Shrike and 2 LAU-10s.

 

Here is the site for those that would like more info:

 

http://bo-smith.net/bosmemoir/VA15Circa67/

 

edit: links to his 3 tours in Vietnam:

 

http://bo-smith.net/bosmemoir/

 

Jari

Edited March 16, 2023 by Finn

[eraucubsfan]

I took a chance and sent an email that was listed on the site about the carrying of the zunis and Capt. Smith responded:

 

Brent,

I have attached photos of a model I had made of our VA-15 Iron Hand A4C we flew in 1967 off Yankee Station during Operation Rolling Thunder. We could have carried two LAU 10 5” rocket pods on a Tripple Ejection Rack (TER) but wanted to be as clean and fast as we could. We carried a fuel tank on the centerline because our tactics required that we flew well out in front of the strike group checking out which SAM sites along the strike route were occupied with missiles.

 

If we had had A4Es which had 5 racks we could have flown with two Shrikes (one on each outer rack and two LAU 10s,one on each inner rack. 

Robert  S. “Bo” Smith

Captain USN Ret.

Sent from my iPhone

 

The pictures he sent were of a wooden model.  

 

 

 

[jbryan911]

Interesting read on one of the first Iron Hand missions. https://ipms-mckinstry.org/2015/11/10/the-story-of-magic-stone-466/