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USED to swear by it, now though I have learned that postshading and using filters is oh so much easier and gives better control.   I use a .15 needle on my Harder & Steenbeck and can run near pencil-thick lines of Mr Color or Mr Paint.   Salute from Jeffersonville!

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I've found that pre shading is a waste of time now.  I use so many post painting techniques that they cover up the pre shade.  Plus, I think that pre shading tends to draw too much attention to the panel lines especially in combination with panel line washes.  Just a wash by itself brings to right amount of weathering to the lines in my opinion.  I personally like to put down a normal coat of paint and then fade, modulate and filter on top of it.  

 

The new fad is "black basing" which is just some weird way of saying black primer.  You can use white primer and "mottle" on darker colors with the same results.  Kinda the same thing most of us have been doing for several years now.  Many people used to  (still do) pre shade and mottle on dark areas first.

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I demonstrate my techniques here-

 

www.grexairbrush.com/MAS

 

When you see these please understand the techniques are deliberately over done so the camera can pick up the subtleties.  I don't say this to brag but I've won IPMS National category 1st places with models in which I've used these techniques. So I'm not the only one who likes the technique.

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10 minutes ago, Swashplate said:

Fantastic work Snowbird3a and FAR148. Thanks for posting such an  informative video on your techniques 86Sabreboy1.

Thanks,

 

I forgot to mention the first video could be skipped as it only pertains to understanding your paint and no airbrushing is actually conducted. For most of us here we pretty much understand our paint but I had to start somewhere. Just prior to shooting the videos a guy posted on another forum that he couldn't understand how Testors has stayed in business for so many years selling their acrylic line of paints. He thinned their paint with IPA and couldn't understand why it shot so badly. I realized I had to start with the dumbest rock,,,lol.

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86Sabreboy1,

    I watched all of your videos, and they are extremely well done for what they are: A visual learning tool on the basics of air brushing. But that's not what we're talking about here.

 

  The issue is the value of pre-shading  within the confines of how we now paint and finish model aircraft.  Pre-shading is supposed to artificially create the illusion of depth in panel lines that would be caused generally by the sunlight not reaching the bottom of the recessed line, or dirt/grime accumulating along an overlapping pair of panels. Those lines should be  generally straight not wavy, and should be rather sharp  in nature. Post shading with or without the black basing technique is used to emulate dirt, grime, fuel, oil, bleaching, fading, and even a over paint of a similar color. Generally speaking the middle of certain panels should be somewhat lighter then as you move towards the recessed lines, at least that the goal the majority of times. The reality is that aircraft just don't weather in a organized  and repeatable pattern , it's more of a random blotchy effect which is different by what caused the discoloration, what area of the world, time frame, etc. 

 

 I personally find that pre-shading just is too heavy handed, and more often then not isn't done correctly to emulate the real aircraft.   those are the goals that I'm trying to recreate when I attempt weathering as a whole, which actually starts with some form of Black Basing no matter what two or three colors  one uses, and continues through the painting process, post shading and then filters & washes. I'm not saying that my efforts are better, far from it, but there are enough examples here and on other sites that demonstrate this perfectly.

 

while I used black for the panel lines, a Gray would have really been more realistic, the effect of panel lines between panels is realistic. the weathering and fading of the white does to some extent emulate the real thing. 

 fBgcLU.jpg

 

 Beaching of the top colors isn't just confined to the individual panels, but spread over defined areas.  the impression presented to the viewer is that of a weather worn, operational aircraft. At least that was my intent. Again, my F6F-3 is nowhere perfect nor does it show the full capabilities of what today's weathering techniques can duplicate.

XQq3y2.jpg

 

Joel

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10 hours ago, Joel_W said:

86Sabreboy1,

    I watched all of your videos, and they are extremely well done for what they are: A visual learning tool on the basics of air brushing. But that's not what we're talking about here.

 

  The issue is the value of pre-shading  within the confines of how we now paint and finish model aircraft.  Pre-shading is supposed to artificially create the illusion of depth in panel lines that would be caused generally by the sunlight not reaching the bottom of the recessed line, or dirt/grime accumulating along an overlapping pair of panels. Those lines should be  generally straight not wavy, and should be rather sharp  in nature. Post shading with or without the black basing technique is used to emulate dirt, grime, fuel, oil, bleaching, fading, and even a over paint of a similar color. Generally speaking the middle of certain panels should be somewhat lighter then as you move towards the recessed lines, at least that the goal the majority of times. The reality is that aircraft just don't weather in a organized  and repeatable pattern , it's more of a random blotchy effect which is different by what caused the discoloration, what area of the world, time frame, etc. 

 

 I personally find that pre-shading just is too heavy handed, and more often then not isn't done correctly to emulate the real aircraft.   those are the goals that I'm trying to recreate when I attempt weathering as a whole, which actually starts with some form of Black Basing no matter what two or three colors  one uses, and continues through the painting process, post shading and then filters & washes. I'm not saying that my efforts are better, far from it, but there are enough examples here and on other sites that demonstrate this perfectly.

 

while I used black for the panel lines, a Gray would have really been more realistic, the effect of panel lines between panels is realistic. the weathering and fading of the white does to some extent emulate the real thing. 

 fBgcLU.jpg

 

 Beaching of the top colors isn't just confined to the individual panels, but spread over defined areas.  the impression presented to the viewer is that of a weather worn, operational aircraft. At least that was my intent. Again, my F6F-3 is nowhere perfect nor does it show the full capabilities of what today's weathering techniques can duplicate.

XQq3y2.jpg

 

Joel

Your welcome to your opinions. All I can say is my techniques have served me as well as others. To say specifically that a particular color is arbitrarily going to be more successful than another is purely subjective. To say that pre-shading in of itself is "heavy handed" is again a subjective and arbitrary opinion.

 

The reason I posted the videos is to show that a successful pre-shading and post tinting technique can produce very successful results. Regrettable there are only a couple of quantitative ways to gauge what is "successful" and what isn't. One is to to have the honor to receive the "Fine Scale Modeler would like to photograph your model" card. Something that I've received many times at various IPMS shows around the US. Images of my models have have been published in in Fine Scale Modeler and I've even been requested to write an article for FSM regarding a particular painting technique.

 

The other bench mark is how we compete against our peers at IPMS and shows. Clearly poor technique is going to be evaluated and the model(s) removed from 1st, 2nd or 3rd place consideration. As I tried to indicate in my previous post, I've received many awards in IPMS and similar competition and to be completely honest, I have yet to enter an IPMS contest (local, regional or Nationals) and not receive an award in at least one category. Those that know me and know my work also know that I don't "pack" a category to ensure an award. If anything I've entered as few as 1 model but often enter 3-4 each in different categories.

 

It's regrettable that you felt it necessary to impose your views on me specifically. To everyone else I apologize for this turning into a chest beating thread. That was not my intent but rather to demonstrate with good technique pre-shading shouldn't be dismissed because others choose to utilize other techniques. In the end who really cares how a model is accomplished if in the end the result meets the mark,,,both personally and perhaps against the "competition". Model building should never be arbitrary just because others say so. For all of you, my message is this,,,do what works for you. For myself, all I can say is my models have been judged by my peers and they seem to like the results. I've been fortunate and appreciate the recognition but I'm by no means a trophy whore. I enter models when I can, which is extremely rare these days, but they seem to do well. Keep it fun guys and do what works for you,,,,,that's what it's really all about.

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  What I've said isn't just my opinion but that of other modelers as well, some much more center stage then I.  lets just leave it at that. As modeling has progressed, new techniques have replaced older ones, and that trend most likely will continue for some time to come. 

 

 As for you accolades of awards at IPMS contests, I haven't entered any since the mid to late 70s, and like you, (but I will be entering the IPMS Northeastcon and the Mosquitocon this April), won and placed more times then not. Neither of our accomplishments have anything to do with the topic.

 

  So lets just end our discussion as neither of  us will concede our view points. Just build, paint, weather as you deem proper, and enjoy modeling. After all, that's the whole point.

 

Joel

 

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3 hours ago, Joel_W said:

  What I've said isn't just my opinion but that of other modelers as well, some much more center stage then I.  lets just leave it at that. As modeling has progressed, new techniques have replaced older ones, and that trend most likely will continue for some time to come. 

 

 As for you accolades of awards at IPMS contests, I haven't entered any since the mid to late 70s, and like you, (but I will be entering the IPMS Northeastcon and the Mosquitocon this April), won and placed more times then not. Neither of our accomplishments have anything to do with the topic.

 

  So lets just end our discussion as neither of  us will concede our view points. Just build, paint, weather as you deem proper, and enjoy modeling. After all, that's the whole point.

 

Joel

 

Why are you expressing the opinions of others? Only someone who feels challenged needs to make such stipulations. Apparently I'm perceived as some sort of threat to you as there is no other rhetoric that justifies going in this direction.  Probably wishing this were on Facebook where if the narrative isn't solely preaching to the choir the next move is to delete. Pity you can't leave it alone and let others speak for themselves and let the chips lay where they may. No consideration to simply post your techniques and let those following the thread to pick and choose what works best for them.

 

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I have a Has AV-8B plus night attack I'm going to try this on.  It seems it would be a perfect fit for worn Navy and Marine jets and maybe a bit too much for Air Force jets. But I guess with those one could just go thicker with the cover coat also.

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I agree Hooker169 that the Navy and Marine jet are a bit more weathered than the Air Force jets. I  personally like pre-shading on jet that see a lot more of the elements.  I tried not to go overboard on the F-16C I’m currently working on. What scale and kit do you have of the AV-8B Night Attack?

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9 hours ago, Hooker169 said:

I have a Has AV-8B plus night attack I'm going to try this on.  It seems it would be a perfect fit for worn Navy and Marine jets and maybe a bit too much for Air Force jets. But I guess with those one could just go thicker with the cover coat also.

Just curious, do you feel the preshading here is over done??? I'm not referring to the panel lines specifically, that was accomplished with a pastel wash, but the areas adjacent to the lines-

AFV F-5 pics 004400.jpg

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24 minutes ago, 86Sabreboy1 said:

Just curious, do you feel the preshading here is over done??? I'm not referring to the panel lines specifically, that was accomplished with a pastel wash, but the areas adjacent to the lines-

AFV F-5 pics 004400.jpg

No, that looks great and its hard to see the preshading under the “faded” paint. I think you pulled it off nicely. I was probably referring more to MY ability to achieve a subtle look.

 

5 hours ago, Swashplate said:

I agree Hooker169 that the Navy and Marine jet are a bit more weathered than the Air Force jets. I  personally like pre-shading on jet that see a lot more of the elements.  I tried not to go overboard on the F-16C I’m currently working on. What scale and kit do you have of the AV-8B Night Attack?

 

Its the Hasegawa PT28 kit, Swashplate. After reading a thread on black basing I might try that instead to make it look even more worn. Ive always post shaded but that can be tricky if my color is off a bit.

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43 minutes ago, Hooker169 said:

No, that looks great and its hard to see the preshading under the “faded” paint. I think you pulled it off nicely. I was probably referring more to MY ability to achieve a subtle look.

 

 

Its the Hasegawa PT28 kit, Swashplate. After reading a thread on black basing I might try that instead to make it look even more worn. Ive always post shaded but that can be tricky if my color is off a bit.

The really secret is to use a gloss black for the pre-shading. If you prefer to use another color, grey for example as others have said,,,make it a gloss grey. The gloss itself is what makes the technique work so well. No odd fuzziness on either side of the panel lines, also a thinner line over each of the panel lines is achieved. Also, many misunderstand the purpose of pre-shading.  The assumption is that pre-shading addresses the panel line but that is incorrect. Pre-shading addresses the area adjacent to the panel line. The panel line is merely a guide for the pre-shading and will be addressed directly later in the build process through washes and such.

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"I don't say this to brag but I've won IPMS National category 1st places". Congratulations!! However IPMS contests are not judged on how realistic the model is, so the fact that you have won prizes says nothing for how realistic a model may appear. Heavy pre-shading does not look realistic, especially when considering how actual aircraft weather, ie, they aren't sprayed with black paint along panel lines before being painted with the final color. The actual paint fades and gets dirty, it is not "pre-weathered" in real life. IPMS contests are judged on technique and how well the actual model is built and painted. Not on if the model looks good.  

Edited by Matt Walker
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8 hours ago, Matt Walker said:

 "I realized I had to start with the dumbest rock" Wow, your arrogance is just astounding.

OK, maybe I'm a bit hash but the guy was pretty adamant that Testors was clueless with their paint products. It was more a rant than asking for help or understanding. 

 

Your mission on this thread seems to be to bash me. That's fine I can take it, it's just you've not really contributed anything to the intent of the initial post. While there are differing opinions and we all may not agree, that's fine, it's part of the hobby. If all you want to do is dog people out there are other places for that like,,,,,,Facebook.

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