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Swashplate

Pre-shading

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On 1/30/2018 at 3:33 PM, Swashplate said:

I was just  curious how many of you  pre-shade prior to painting. 

 

What do you mean by preshade?

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Airbrushing a dark line along a line of rivets or panel lines on an entire model. Then airbrushing the main color over top of that, letting the dark line below that to peek  through.

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I did that type of pre-shading a few times after coming back to the hobby 11 years ago. I first saw it on a youtube video, I was amazed by it. But I don't do that anymore. IMO, panel line pre shading has a tendency to look too quilted, especially if one relies primarily on this for weathering with no additional post-shading or blending.

 

However, post shading of the panel lines alone is not ideal either. Here is an example of post shading done on the panel lines and rivets, which looks toyish:

IMG_4205.JPG

 

Back to pre shading: Pre shading alone can and should mean more than just panel line shading. Black basing is one such instance like others mentioned. Here are some examples of what I would categorize as pre shading:

 

A marbled undercoat:

IMG_7475.JPG

 

Delineation of camo borders that are sometimes visible on the real thing as a darker, 'wetter' boundary. 

IMG_7489.JPG

 

Preshaded then beaten up:

IMG_8077.JPG

 

IMG_8099.JPG

 

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I am by no means an expert on weathering. I just don't have that artistic ability. I have worked hard, though, to try and find techniques that give me a finish I'm satisfied with. I want a realistic finish. For me, preshading/black basing/etc. are all artistic interpretations, and that's awesome if that's what you're trying to achieve. The F-5 pictured earlier in the thread is a perfect example. It's artistic, not realistic. There is a modeler in my area who is unbelievable. Every contest he enters, he wins. However, his weathering consists of inky black panel lines. It's very striking, but not realistic in the slightest. I try and paint/weather like it really happens. I lay down my base colors, and then get them dirty. I've tried a couple different things. I have lightly sprayed Tamiya smoke over the entire model. The newest thing I've tried that I really like is to get a scrapbook brush pen (Micron or some other similar product) and run it along all the panel lines. Then I take a wet Q-Tip and smear it over the entire model. This tends to stain the base colors. When that's dry, I go back over with various hues of the base colors to get tonal variations. I still haven't gotten where I want to go, but it's closer. Here's a Monogram F-4 that I did.

 

2728757_orig.jpg

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Phenomenal work, Darren! Thanks for sharing. 

Janissary, those look amazing!

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15 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

The F-5 pictured earlier in the thread is a perfect example. It's artistic, not realistic. There is a modeler in my area who is unbelievable. Every contest he enters, he wins. However, his weathering consists of inky black panel lines. It's very striking, but not realistic in the slightest.

This kind of modeling has its fashion fads just as does the other kind of modeling; apparently it is basic human nature to have fads.

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Thanks for posting the pictures Janissary. Great examples of different effects one couId get using the different  techniques. I could also see where if done incorrectly, it could look more toy like than a model. I just started pre shading stuff about 3 years ago. I’m just now starting to experiment with post shading. Black basing sounds like something I might want to try in the very near future. Darren Roberts,  I like the effects that you had on your F-4. Looks fantastic.

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The problem I see on Darren's(I'm not out to bash him) build above is that although the Grey has a good level of weathering, there is no weathering (visible in the picture at least) of the Black areas. Does it make it a poor build.....no it doesn't, it's just one man's interpretation of what he wants it to look like.

 

Pre-shading, post shading, Black or White basing, and so on..... are all techniques that if used correctly can enhance an otherwise mundane model, on the other hand if used wrongly they will ruin it. The problem is that everyone and their dog jumps on the current fad bandwagon as if it's fashionable to do so. I've been Black/White basing for years but only ever heard it called that in the last 2 years, to me it was just low lighting and high lighting certain areas.

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I also want to add the following: Deep inside, I believe many of us are actually not striving for true realism. We are after an effect. This invariably means exaggeration. The richer the variety of these effects are the better we deem a model is, provided that there is sufficient restraint in the effects. But at the end, it is all artistic. That's why we have these fads, and this includes everything I do on my own models. It looks great to me during the year I build them, but a few years later I ask myself "what was I thinking." That's why I personally refrain from claiming that I am after realism. I know I am not. However, I do want references of the real thing to guide my process of a purely artistic and arbitrary attempts at effect-replication.

 

The following is from Mr. Barry Numerick, whom I respect tremendously. He is a 72nd scale modeler: "Weathering is very much a matter of individual taste. Some like accentuated panel lines, others don't. A wise modeler once told me that a real plane shrunk down to 1/72 scale would be boring, while a model increased to actual size would look like a caricature." 

 

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41 minutes ago, Janissary said:

I also want to add the following: ...

Good points. Similar thing happens in model railroad hobby, especially with making dimples for nails holding the siding on wooden buildings. In real life you are not going to see the nails in painted house siding at 10 real feet way and certainly not at the 175 feet that being 2 feet away from an HO scale, 1/87 scale, model would represent.

And a lot of rivet details work out the the scale size of McDonald's quarter pounder hamburger.

Edited by southwestforests

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1 hour ago, Janissary said:

I also want to add the following: Deep inside, I believe many of us are actually not striving for true realism. We are after an effect. This invariably means exaggeration. The richer the variety of these effects are the better we deem a model is, provided that there is sufficient restraint in the effects. But at the end, it is all artistic. That's why we have these fads, and this includes everything I do on my own models. It looks great to me during the year I build them, but a few years later I ask myself "what was I thinking." That's why I personally refrain from claiming that I am after realism. I know I am not. However, I do want references of the real thing to guide my process of a purely artistic and arbitrary attempts at effect-replication.

 

The following is from Mr. Barry Numerick, whom I respect tremendously. He is a 72nd scale modeler: "Weathering is very much a matter of individual taste. Some like accentuated panel lines, others don't. A wise modeler once told me that a real plane shrunk down to 1/72 scale would be boring, while a model increased to actual size would look like a caricature." 

 

This ^^^^^^^^^

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2 hours ago, scotthldr said:

The problem I see on Darren's(I'm not out to bash him) build above is that although the Grey has a good level of weathering, there is no weathering (visible in the picture at least) of the Black areas. Does it make it a poor build.....no it doesn't, it's just one man's interpretation of what he wants it to look like.

 

Pre-shading, post shading, Black or White basing, and so on..... are all techniques that if used correctly can enhance an otherwise mundane model, on the other hand if used wrongly they will ruin it. The problem is that everyone and their dog jumps on the current fad bandwagon as if it's fashionable to do so. I've been Black/White basing for years but only ever heard it called that in the last 2 years, to me it was just low lighting and high lighting certain areas.

Actually, the weathering on the Gull Gray is a bit too much. Gull Gray was a rock solid color and you only see it really weathering/dirty under high intensity ops. The technique I used for the above Phantom would be better served on a tactical gray scheme. You're also correct about the black areas. I liked the contrast between the weathered base color and crisp, bright markings. That's artistic, although the gloss paint held up pretty well.

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2 hours ago, Janissary said:

I also want to add the following: Deep inside, I believe many of us are actually not striving for true realism. We are after an effect. This invariably means exaggeration. The richer the variety of these effects are the better we deem a model is, provided that there is sufficient restraint in the effects. But at the end, it is all artistic. That's why we have these fads, and this includes everything I do on my own models. It looks great to me during the year I build them, but a few years later I ask myself "what was I thinking." That's why I personally refrain from claiming that I am after realism. I know I am not. However, I do want references of the real thing to guide my process of a purely artistic and arbitrary attempts at effect-replication.

 

The following is from Mr. Barry Numerick, whom I respect tremendously. He is a 72nd scale modeler: "Weathering is very much a matter of individual taste. Some like accentuated panel lines, others don't. A wise modeler once told me that a real plane shrunk down to 1/72 scale would be boring, while a model increased to actual size would look like a caricature." 

 

 

Well said! :thumbsup:

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6 hours ago, scotthldr said:

The problem I see on Darren's(I'm not out to bash him) build above is that although the Grey has a good level of weathering, there is no weathering (visible in the picture at least) of the Black areas. Does it make it a poor build.....no it doesn't, it's just one man's interpretation of what he wants it to look like.

 

Pre-shading, post shading, Black or White basing, and so on..... are all techniques that if used correctly can enhance an otherwise mundane model, on the other hand if used wrongly they will ruin it. The problem is that everyone and their dog jumps on the current fad bandwagon as if it's fashionable to do so. I've been Black/White basing for years but only ever heard it called that in the last 2 years, to me it was just low lighting and high lighting certain areas.

 

You get it,,,,well said. People tend to be arbitrary when they say one technique tends to look over done or not correct. Yet they've probably looked at many well executed models using the very same technique.

 

A particular technique shouldn't be discounted but merely brought to those asking for information. If it's not your particular method of painting, fair enough but give those asking the opportunity to understand it better. Allow them to decide for themselves what works best for them.

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2 hours ago, 86Sabreboy1 said:

A particular technique shouldn't be discounted but merely brought to those asking for information. If it's not your particular method of painting, fair enough but give those asking the opportunity to understand it better. Allow them to decide for themselves what works best for them.

 

...which is what everyone posting here does already, so all is good. 

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I use pre shading to create an effect of depth. If this effect is not created, a painted model will look like a toy. But this is subjective. I like pre shading and keep it subdued to create a subtle effect of depth. If pre shading is too stark, the model will still look like a toy, the effect we wanted to eliminate using pre shading.

 

You can then do different shades of surface color to create more effects of depth called post-shading. You can use oils, pigments and all other conventional techniques to create a realistic model. 

 

It all depends on what you like and how like your model to be.

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On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:45 PM, Swashplate said:

Thanks for posting the pictures Janissary. Great examples of different effects one couId get using the different  techniques. I could also see where if done incorrectly, it could look more toy like than a model. I just started pre shading stuff about 3 years ago. I’m just now starting to experiment with post shading. Black basing sounds like something I might want to try in the very near future. Darren Roberts,  I like the effects that you had on your F-4. Looks fantastic.

Another fellow over on the helo page recommended this book, he has a phenomenal build going on of a SeaHawk. I just ordered mine!

http://shop.lastcavalry.com/ammo-of-mig-modelling-school-an-initiation-to-aircraft-weathering/

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It's been a little while since I frequent this forum, ever since I went back into hiatus a few years ago. It's nice to see that "do you pre-shade" question still comes up, which still generates the same debate. :rofl:

 

I tried pre-shading a couple of times, but didn't like it, so I stopped and went post-shading route instead.  

 

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well, a friend of mine (so no, it's not my model) still uses preshadow, but only on one side of the panelline... so he uses a lot of tape before applying it (good for me, I've bought some extra shares) and it gives a really nice result... One could compare it with the black and white technique...

 

26685551_782292668622896_703678537404484

 

26757986_782292681956228_847625398048335

 

26678178_782292711956225_512483650155926

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It's a tool to keep in the modelers toolbox in my opinion. Like a lot of tools I have hanging in my garage it may only get used once every so often but I am glad that I have it when I need it. Whatever works for the individual modeler :thumbsup:.

 

Happy modeling all.

 

Regards.

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Nail to the head, but some people think it is an obligatory step... 

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