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How do you get better at modeling?


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I'm on my 8th model and I still can't go through a project without something fracking up. This time it was putting Tamiya acrylic thinner in Mr. Color paint which curdled it and clogged my airbrush. Last time it was ruining my hard earned paint job because the wash ate away the coat of future and with a few strokes of a q-tip, I reached the black shading coat underneath, before that, another problem with weathering where trying to do chipping work made the model look obscene instead of realistic, had to peel off the paint and start again. Then of course when I try to pin wash the panel lines, it dried up before I could wipe off the spots it overflowed so I used acrylic thinner to wipe it off with a q-tip and it still ate through future and started attacking the base paint.

 

Meanwhile I look at all these photos of great modelers and feel myself getting jealous. I want to make models at a professional level because so many of my friends and family I know have been in the military (and a few that dreamt of being fighter pilots that didn't work out) and I want to make dioramas for them to commentate their service or their dream of serving. But it feels like I'm not getting any better despite the amount of time, money and patience I'm sinking into these models and I stalk forums, read magazines, study articles online but I keep making mistakes or people end up being wrong with their advice, (I put Tamiya acrylic thinner in Mr. Color paint because I saw in a post in another forum that it was okay)

 

And I want to know what it took for you guys to get as close to professional grade as you did? Did it just take dozens of models, years of work and hundreds of dollars or is there something I'm missing?

Edited by WelshZeCorgi
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I completed around 100 kits before I turned "pro". And I still make mistakes to this very day after nearly 20 years as a "pro"! Modeling is a very unforgiving hobby where one little mistake late in the game can erase hours and hours of work. BTW, most of the errors you listed will be learned through experience and failures (they are pretty basic mistakes that we all worked through) and you likely won't be repeating them again. Advice on modelling forums/articles can be good, bad, or ugly, and my experience has shown that advice posted on forums can be wrong about as often as it's right. As a "newbie" you never know whether it's good or bad until you try it. My advice is to keep trying and learning from your mistakes and you will get better!

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Short answer: No shortcuts, lots of trial and error, and a passion for the subject (aviation, armor etc.).

 

I started modeling at the age of 12, stopped at 17, got back to it again at the age of 29. The first 5 years I modeled for the sheer joy of it, with no immediate access to expert opinion on my builds. Also, I didn't care. Getting back to the hobby at 29 was awesome because I already had the rock-solid passion, combined with the internet for learning.

 

Today, it's infinitely more difficult to start this hobby and stay with it I'd imagine. If you are doing all those things in your 8th kit, you're expecting too much, and destined to be disappointed I fear. Yes the internet is a great resource, but it is also a black hole. The tendency to compare yourself to others and wanting to do it all, sets too high of a bar for a sustained "production schedule." So easy to to get discouraged unfortunately. It's all too common around this and other forums to see super-stoked newbies with questions for paints, airbrushes, tools etc. only to fall from the face of the earth a few months later. 

 

The only viable path I see are:

(1) Sow the seeds: Start at a young age, care only about the sheer joy of pretending to fly the model you built.

(2) Build many models without comparing. Easier said than done, but unless the foundation is strong, the rest is irrelevant. The things you mentioned are too advanced. Look at the built models on old hasegawa or revell boxes. That should be to goal, I think.

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A lot of the guys on here and on other modelling forums have been building for more years than they may want to admit( I’ve been at it off and on for over 35 years), so don’t expect too much too fast. However I’ve seen guys that have been at it for years but can’t even get the basics right.  I think the main thing to learn is to learn from your own mistakes and believe me there will be many, even now I make mistakes or just realise that I could’ve done something a better way. Also the old saying “measure twice, cut once” is true, always try something that you’re doing for the first time on a scrap model or piece of plastic before committing. 

 

If if looking at forums for advice always try to get several opinions before taking the first one. This place is probably the best for answers and remember the only stupid question is the one you didn’t ask.

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Remember also that many "pros" have been modeling for several years and have built up an extensive set of tools and building supplies.  Many of them have hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of tools and things.  And I don't mean that in a discouraging way...but having good tools makes a big difference.

Edited by Fly-n-hi
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4 hours ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

I'm on my 8th model and I still can't go through a project without something fracking up. This time it was putting Tamiya acrylic thinner in Mr. Color paint which curdled it and clogged my airbrush. Last time it was ruining my hard earned paint job because the wash ate away the coat of future and with a few strokes of a q-tip, I reached the black shading coat underneath, before that, another problem with weathering where trying to do chipping work made the model look obscene instead of realistic, had to peel off the paint and start again. Then of course when I try to pin wash the panel lines, it dried up before I could wipe off the spots it overflowed so I used acrylic thinner to wipe it off with a q-tip and it still ate through future and started attacking the base paint.

Sounds like an, shall we say, education in chemical compatibility.

Given that Future is acrylic it would follow that acrylic thinner would have some impact on its integrity.

A thing to keep in mind is that quite often a small proportion goes a long way. Not always, but often.

 

--> somewhere out there is a list, chart, of what kind of paint solvents can safely be used over and under other types.

I haven't a clue where any more since it was about a decade ago that I found it or was led to it. And there are more brands of paint now anyway so there has to be a new list.

 

And yep, like Janissary said, trial and error, though sometimes it seems more like error and trial.

 

But yeah, allow months, years, decades.

And plan to get some less costly models as experimental and expendable.

 

I've been building models since 1968, have placed 3, 2, 1, people's choice, in several contests along the way and have now gone back to having no desire to build to contest quality and don't even do pre shading.

Washes, drybrushing, airbrushing, yeah, I'll do those, but not always airbrushing; sometimes I just use spray paint, get color on, and be done with it.

At this time I'm doing more model trains with related buildings and road vehicles and game miniatures than aircraft and military vehicles.

Model automobiles were never a real interest and additionally my 'natural feel' for model painting leans toward heavy machinery which sits out in the weather for years  more than a showroom finish auto.

 

Yeah, there's a point, it will take a bit to find what is "you", your niche, your style. 

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Don’t be so hard on yourself, I’m sure if you set your first kit next to your eighth the improvement would be substantial. Trust me, I get it, a lot of these guys on here are next level good and I do use them for inspiration. But I don’t fall into the trap of comparing my work to theirs, someday maybe but not yet.

  What I try to achieve is improvement on each build. I choose one thing I want to “nail” on each build weather it be crystal clear canopy and framing or perfect seam work or pre-shading or whatever.  Once that goal is met I move on as usual. As you complete builds the previous achieved goals compound and you develop a system which works for you.

  And don’t settle. If it doesn’t look right or you’re not happy with it dont move on from that goal. For instance, I’m building the HB FB-111 and I free handed the camo. It looked good but something just didn’t look right. I went back and used double sided tape and paper masks with a lifted edge and got a tighter demarcation line, now I’m happy with it. It set me back a couple days but now I don’t regret not getting it right.

Remember, its a process like everything else. Try to get better each day not all at once and before you know it we’ll all be ogling at one of your builds!:cheers:

 

 

 

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There is no easy  way to answer your question except to echo what the others have said.

Nothing beats hands on experience. Making mistakes is the one sure way to internalise lessons.

There are zero projects where I don't "frack" up. As a matter in fact, a large part of becoming a good modeller is learning how to recover from or cover up mistakes.

 

To address some of the issues you brought up -  

 

I always use the manufacturer's own solvents. It may be a bit more expensive but it is nothing compared to the cost of time I spend undoing a bad paint job.

 

Washes tend to stain matt finishes so I usually go with a glossy clear coat as protection. I usually use Tamiya's acrylic X-22. (you can also use staining as a good weathering effect but that is another story)

 

For washes, I use Flory's clay washes, Tamiya's enamel panel liner or washes made up from oil paints.

The former cleans up with water. For the latter two, I clean up with cotton buds dampened with turpentine.

To dampen cotton buds, I use a dropper to moistened the bud, then I remove excess fluid by rolling the bud in a kitchen towel. Whatever is left is enough to remove excess wash and not strip paint.

 

With regards to seeing outstanding models and not quite achieving the same results, I urge you to not feel frustrated.

Hobbies are meant for enjoyment and not to cause stress. Try to enjoy the journey and not obsess about the results too much.

Better results are achieved one model at a time. If you can see yourself getting better with each project, you are getting there.

 

I tend to try one new challenge per project. For example, I will first do a one color plane. Then one with a different top and bottom color. Next perhaps a camouflage subject with hard demarcation lines so I can use masking. And then after I am confident with the airbrush, a soft edged camouflage painted free hand.

Learning one thing at a time prevents frustration.

 

If the results don't quite match your expectations, finish it anyway and move on to the next subject. Finished projects document your progress. Look back at them to see how far you have come. Be proud.

 

For more specific questions, the internet is a tremendous resource (specifically forums and youtube).

Just feel free to ask.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, WelshZeCorgi said:

I'm on my 8th model and I still can't go through a project without something fracking up. This time it was putting Tamiya acrylic thinner in Mr. Color paint which curdled it and clogged my airbrush. Last time it was ruining my hard earned paint job because the wash ate away the coat of future and with a few strokes of a q-tip, I reached the black shading coat underneath, before that, another problem with weathering where trying to do chipping work made the model look obscene instead of realistic, had to peel off the paint and start again. Then of course when I try to pin wash the panel lines, it dried up before I could wipe off the spots it overflowed so I used acrylic thinner to wipe it off with a q-tip and it still ate through future and started attacking the base paint.

 

Meanwhile I look at all these photos of great modelers and feel myself getting jealous. I want to make models at a professional level because so many of my friends and family I know have been in the military (and a few that dreamt of being fighter pilots that didn't work out) and I want to make dioramas for them to commentate their service or their dream of serving. But it feels like I'm not getting any better despite the amount of time, money and patience I'm sinking into these models and I stalk forums, read magazines, study articles online but I keep making mistakes or people end up being wrong with their advice, (I put Tamiya acrylic thinner in Mr. Color paint because I saw in a post in another forum that it was okay)

 

And I want to know what it took for you guys to get as close to professional grade as you did? Did it just take dozens of models, years of work and hundreds of dollars or is there something I'm missing?

 

Stop the experimentation with your paints!!!!  Pick a paint line that you feel will works for you and stick with it to gain confidence. All paint lines that are generally used to paint models have an appropriate thinning agent and in some cases a "flow improover"  as well.  Furthermore most if not all paint lines have the capability of being glossed up and/or flatted down to accommodate various aspects of the build process. You are not doing yourself any favors by doing the mad scientist stuff that others are suggesting. Understand in many cases model builders are working with alterative thinners and such to find a "cheaper" product as these resources get used extensively. For others it's about expediting the speed of the drying and curing time. These are factors you should not be concerning yourself with just yet. Spend the money for the proprietary thinner initially, it has to work with the paint otherwise no one would buy the paint line. Once you've gained confidence with a few completed models, now you have experience working for you.

 

Even a mad scientist likely understands the concept of a control and a variable. Should you choose to try something different make only one change. For example, use a generic product for thinner (like Isopropyl alcohol with Tamiya Acrylic Paint, a common substitute). Make that change but no other changes in products. Keep your gloss coat the same as well as your flatting agent. See if the paint and the overall result changes in any way. Were all components of the painting/weathering process still compatible with each other? What changes did you find and are they for the better or for the worse? If you were to change the thinner and the product for your gloss coat and got a reaction you don't know what caused the problem. Now you are lost and have to go back and try each individually to determine what caused the adverse effect. Do you really want to do all that??? Probably not.

 

Truth be told in many cases the alternative products used  are not actually a benefit to the paint. The chemistry breaks down the resins in the paint itself. In some cases some products can even be harmful to the airbrush. I've seen many airbrushes compromised because the user blindly did what someone else told them without any understanding of the chemistry of the products.  Don't make the assumption that others posting here or other forums actually know what they are talking about. When it comes to airbrushes,,,,read the instruction manual. See what are appropriate cleaning products. If you don't find a particular product in the manual or on the manufacturer's website that doesn't mean it's still OK to use. Be smart about using your equipment,,,you've made an investment,,,,take care of it.

 

Stop throwing mud at the wall and expecting it to stick and stop reading what everyone else is doing. If you have a question about your preferred line of paints then keep the question concise. Be specific with your question and state that you are only working with the proprietary components of the paint line. When others beat their chest about using something else, don't listen to them. Get the information you need,,,,not what everyone is throwing at you.  Success will come sooner.

Edited by 86Sabreboy1
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I've been building models for just 10 years ... and before I built my first model I visited a bunch of websites, ARC, LSP, Britmodeller, Hyperscale, CollectSpace and many more. I looked at threads, hundreds of threads, and saw so many tips and techniques ... that I had no idea you could do-o-o these things to a model kit.

 

I mean, when I was a kid, I built a model in an afternoon ... my first model, as an adult 10 years ago, took over 200 hours!!! But I was ready. I couldn't wait to try this tip or that technique ... 

 

If you're serious, if you're not trolling us, then you need to know that this hobby is ... a SKILL. You'll need to learn to File and Sand and Mask and use an Airbrush and Glues, Adhesives, Solvents, Enamels or Acrylics, Weathering and 100's of other things.

 

And you'll get good the same way you get to Carnegie Hall ... you practice. Build 15 models and try and learn every technique you saw. And the next 15 models will be ... just a little better.

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Pay attention to the basics.

Examine where your last model had shortcomings and concentrate on not repeating that.

If you see a mistake in your current model, restrain your self from saying "good enough" if you know it will bug you later.

If something's not working with the paint, modify it to see if it improves, thin it, adjust the air pressure, try a different brush...don't just keep doing it the same way if the results aren't to your liking.

If you're building armor and you see a mistake, slop some mud on it. :rolleyes:

 

Don't worry too much about it. Unless someone's paying you for the finished product it doesn't really matter how it turns out in the long run.

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                    In this hobby, we all start at the bottom of the ladder. You need to go easy on yourself. Trial and error is what has worked for me over the years. ( and I’m no pro). The most important thing is that you have fun with it. Improvement will come over time. Maybe you concentrate on improving one area at a time.  Whether it be airbrushing, doing canopies, applying decals, or doing washes. Is there a model club near you? You can learn a lot going to club meetings and build sessions.  In clubs like that, there are generally modelers at all stages of experience. 

                      You could also see first hand how certain things are done.  Practice, practice, practice.  Keep a positive  attitude, and have fun.  That’s what it’s all about.👍

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Everyone starts at the bottom, but how quick you progress up the ladder is down to the individual. A technical mindset along with an artistic eye play a big part in modelling as does the correct attitude.  But as others have said, expecting "pro" results after only 8 models is wishful thinking at it's best.  The way I look at it is model building is a form of art therefore go and compare the works of the great artists, Van Gogh, Renoir, Constable, Picasso, Warhol, Matisse, da Vinci and so on.......  You can't can you , as each had their own style and area of interests which is what made them great.

 

What is classed as pro model building anyway?

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/11/2018 at 10:28 AM, scotthldr said:

 What is classed as pro model building anyway?

 

I would assume stuff like Model Aces:

http://www.modelaces.com/148_scale_model/spitfire_mk_vb_zumbach.php

 

Plasmo:

 

This one Japanese guy that seems to consistantly place in Tamiya's official military model competitions:

 

 

Eye of the beholder but I would like to get at this level of craftsmanship. 

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Since you specifically mentioned problems encountered with painting and weathering (vs construction, fitting, filling etc) I would suggest a “paint target”. Before you apply paint or sealer or weathering to a kit in which you have invested a lot of time and effort, try that technique on a cheap or scrap kit, or even a plastic water bottle.   Practice on the paint target and, when you get the result you want (without “fracking it up”) then use that method/combo on your model in progress.  

Edited by habu2
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If you don't know something, especially when it comes to paints, don't be afraid to ask a question. He who asks a question is a fool for a minute. He who doesn't is a fool forever. There is a wealth of knowledge here and on other forums. One thing to remember, though, is when asking a question make it as specific as possible. Poorly thought out questions that a vague or confusing will not get you the answers you need. So take a minute before you commit the question to text and think it through. It will help immensely.

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