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NSAWC F-16N Adversary Cockpit?


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With regard to the current USN NSAWC F-16N aggressors since 2002, which had been slated for the Pakistani Air Force as F-16A's (which they actually are) before the embargo & then put back into storage after we cancelled the sale. I think they are Block 15? That said, which cockpit config do they have? The original USAF F-16A cockpit or were they upgraded...kind of like the European MLU A models? I can't remember if these were refurbished A's from AMARC & sold to Pakistan (12 A & 4 B) from there. Anyone have prompt, concrete answers to this? Thank you.

 

Semper Fi,
Masterguns

Edited by Gunny
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The recent NSAWC birds are not “N”s.  TF/F-16Ns were early Block 30 airframes.

 

The embargoed Pakistani jets were new build F-16A/B Block 15 OCU airframes and went straight to storage when embargoed and sat for years before being redistributed to both NSAWC and Edwards.  They did not have the MLU cockpits. There are differences in a “plain” 15 and the 15 OCU cockpit, primarily in the UFC & HUD.

 

edit: more info about the embargoed jets here:

 

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article14.html

 

scroll down to “The saga of the embargoed F-16s”

.

 

Edited by habu2
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Yes the first USN F-16N's used in the 80's at the old "Top Gun" at the then NAS Miramar were Block 30's, but the one's introduced at NSAWC Fallon in 2002 were basically A/B's, correct? I'm trying to figure out the most correct cockpit...resin or PE or both to use in a 1/48 Tamiya or Hasegawa as a second choice to build. Would you have a recommendation? I primarily use Aires tubs & apply color Eduard PE over scraped off resin control panels. Sometimes I'll use whatever else brand I find is more accurate. Thanks. 

 

Semper Fi,

Masterguns

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38 minutes ago, Gunny said:

Yes the first USN F-16N's used in the 80's at the old "Top Gun" at the then NAS Miramar were Block 30's, but the one's introduced at NSAWC Fallon in 2002 were basically A/B's, correct? I'm trying to figure out the most correct cockpit...resin or PE or both to use in a 1/48 Tamiya or Hasegawa as a second choice to build. Would you have a recommendation? I primarily use Aires tubs & apply color Eduard PE over scraped off resin control panels. Sometimes I'll use whatever else brand I find is more accurate. Thanks. 

 

Semper Fi,

Masterguns

They use F-16A/B’s your correct.  The cockpits they have are are more along the line of a late F-16A cockpit (http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=785&p=9818 some pics are there) than a F-16A MLU which is based of the cockpit of a F-16C block 50 if I remember right.  I tried looking for a resin cockpit for a NSAWC bird the other day and I couldn’t really find one. Might have to go the PE route.  Also I would use the Hasegawa F-16A kit as a base. The Tamiya kit is of a F-16C and has different panel lines in some areas. The tail also has a larger base as found on the C/D models. 

Edited by achterkirch
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13 minutes ago, achterkirch said:

The cockpits the have are are more along the line of a late F-16A cockpit (http://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=785&p=9818 some pics are there) 

 

lol many of the comments in that 14 year old thread were by me... gawd I'm old... :cheers:

 

Agree on choosing the Hasegawa kit over the Tamiya for the reasons stated.

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I agree ref the parts of the Tamiya Viper. I wanted to use the Tamiya due to it being the superior kit collectively using the earlier block type parts from the Thunderbird parts while stealing a tail from one of my Hasegawa A models. I guess I could just make it easier on myself & use the Hasegawa A & the Aires A pit with Eduard PE that I think I might already have at the bottom of one my stashes. I just like the Tamiya Vipers because of the tech that has gone into the newer kits. Thanks.

 

Semper Fi,

Masterguns

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33 minutes ago, Gunny said:

 I wanted to use the Tamiya due to it being the superior kit collectively using the earlier block type parts from the Thunderbird parts while stealing a tail from one of my Hasegawa A models.

 

Focusing on the OCU cockpit accuracy while ignoring the Tamiya C-model panel lines seems counter-intuitive...    ;)

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Habu? I think I remember your moniker from years ago as the go-to guy for Viper tech, ya? I've only been on here sporadically since before I first found before I joined until now. So, what's the deal with the Tamiya panel lines? I'm not really interested USAF subjects except for the old Top Gun & current NSAWC Vipers (and F-5E), but I don't have a clue about the lines. I presume the Hasegawa kit is more accurate with the lines? Further, using an A model aftermarket resin/etch, depending on brand, of course, for the Hasegawa A might get me close enough for an OCU, in your opinion? 

 

Semper Fi,

Masterguns

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22 minutes ago, Gunny said:

Habu? I think I remember your moniker from years ago as the go-to guy for Viper tech, ya?

 

The Tamiya kits are Very Accurate - for a C model.

 

To make an A you are looking at a new tail base, filling and rescribing the upper fuselage panel lines around the tail base and several other places, (you'll have to compare 3-view drawings to find them all), different wheels and landing lights, and of course the cockpit.

 

The Hasegawa kits don't have the surface detail of the Tamiya kits but, considering the difference in age of the molds, Hasegawa is still pretty good.

 

Kinetic detail is roughly on par with Tamiya but accuracy and fit issues limit its appeal.

 

While I (habu2) do know a lot about Vipers (I used to work at GD/Lockheed on F-16 programs) you might be thinking of Mike Valdez, aka Habu.  I don't think he posts here any more.  He was also on f-16.net back when I was active there. Mike wrenched on Vipers back when he was in the military.

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The pro

On 2/10/2018 at 7:59 PM, habu2 said:

To make an A you are looking at a new tail base, filling and rescribing the upper fuselage panel lines around the tail base and several other places, (you'll have to compare 3-view drawings to find them all), different wheels and landing lights, and of course the cockpit.

No, you need to compare to photos.  drawings are notoriously inaccurate and always open to the artists' interpretations and his access to good reference photos.  The problem with the OCU is that it shares commonality with the Block 50 F-16C AND the Block 15 F-16A.  Depending on how accurate you want to go, there are plenty of changes, but I do think the Tamiya kit is the way to go to get started.

 

Furthermore, the NSAWC Vipers have a few local mods performed on them such as unique antennas along the airframe.  This book may be of help. http://www.reidairpublishing.com/product-p/rap009.htm  It covers the NSAWC jets.

 

Good luck with your project!  Those Vipers sure do look good.

 

Jake

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The PAF F-16s were all A and B. When the agreement was signed to finally deliver the embargoed aircraft in 2006, they were still Block 15. They were then given MLU to bring them to modern version of F-16s with the kits purchased by Pakistan in the same deal. All PAF F-16A/Bs have been upgraded in Turkey by TAI. 

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Thanks, jmel. I absolutely love your books. Top notch reference indeed. Stalal, I'm inquiring about the NASWC Vipers as they are currently in service at NAS Fallon. Not as the others have been modded for service finally with the PAF. Do you have knowledge about the USN Adversary F-16As currently in service out west? Thanks to you both. 

 

Semper Fi,

Masterguns

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