Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Army has noted that the average recruit can no longer throw a grenade the required 25 meters.  The solution?  Just eliminate the requirement.  Land Nav has also been eliminated.   What a worthless subject, we'll always have GPS to guide us through the woods, right?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5392363/Army-wont-require-recruits-throw-grenade-far-enough.html

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Geoff M said:

You sir are a wealth of good information.  Keep us informed.  On the other hand where is this country going?

 

Thanks

LOL..  thank  you sir!   With regard to the linked article, I can't understand what the big deal is.  In Call of Duty, I can throw those suckers a good 100 meters.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

When we went to the live range during combat school it was a memorable day.  It's one thing to throw the practice egg type we used and a whole other thing to have a live egg in your hand.  The weight is the same but the feel was smoother than the cast dummies..  As I waited my turn down the line the instructor suddenly yelled, "Oh S%#T!" and dove down by me.  A second later there was a loud noise and it looked like the whole world was vibrating like in the cartoons.  Evidently someone a bit farther up had let his slip during the throw and instead of it going straight out, it went up and curved to the right, giving my position a airburst.  I ended up with a few cuts on my neck from the grenade that my instructor patched up and then asked me if I wanted to take a break or toss mine next before he sent me to the observation point where the rest of the class was waiting their turn on the line.  I took my grenade and when he said to pull the pin my first live one suddenly felt a lot different.  I got it out a sfe enough distance and then headed to the class to have my wounds rechecked . 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember going thru the grenade course at Campbell. Pretty much boring. All we worked with was standard grenades as the newer baseball sized grenades were just coming around. They had a dummy WP grenade, but we never messed with it. I can't remember the distance thing, but do remember the circle we had to hit. Going into combat, we never tossed a grenade much further than thirty feet. Most were in the sub ten foot range. My first encounter with the other guys and also with a grenade was simply dropping them off a roof top strait down (eight to ten feet) in the pitch dark. Just kept dropping two at a time not knowing the results. I have small hands, and was never comfortable with a WP grenade, even though we used them on a regular basis. usually just plopped them into tunnel mouths from about six feet. Never handled a CS grenade, and don't remember anybody else as well. Smoke grenades were almost daily. The M79 grenade launcher pretty much took over in 1968 shooting direct fire with the sight folded down. 

gary

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, 11bee said:

Army has noted that the average recruit can no longer throw a grenade the required 25 meters.  The solution?  Just eliminate the requirement.  Land Nav has also been eliminated.   What a worthless subject, we'll always have GPS to guide us through the woods, right?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5392363/Army-wont-require-recruits-throw-grenade-far-enough.html

 

 

 

It’s zero-sum. Adding one hour more of physical fitness training or rifle marksmanship means you have to take it away somewhere else. The time and effort put into baseline qual on Nav and Grenades to make the graduation requirement probably isn’t a good return on our investment. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ikar said:

When we went to the live range during combat school it was a memorable day.  It's one thing to throw the practice egg type we used and a whole other thing to have a live egg in your hand.  The weight is the same but the feel was smoother than the cast dummies..  As I waited my turn down the line the instructor suddenly yelled, "Oh S%#T!" and dove down by me.  A second later there was a loud noise and it looked like the whole world was vibrating like in the cartoons.  Evidently someone a bit farther up had let his slip during the throw and instead of it going straight out, it went up and curved to the right, giving my position a airburst.  I ended up with a few cuts on my neck from the grenade that my instructor patched up and then asked me if I wanted to take a break or toss mine next before he sent me to the observation point where the rest of the class was waiting their turn on the line.  I took my grenade and when he said to pull the pin my first live one suddenly felt a lot different.  I got it out a sfe enough distance and then headed to the class to have my wounds rechecked . 

 

 

On the other hand, you probably learned far more valuable lessons that day than a lot of other recruits.... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, fulcrum1 said:

 

It’s zero-sum. Adding one hour more of physical fitness training or rifle marksmanship means you have to take it away somewhere else. The time and effort put into baseline qual on Nav and Grenades to make the graduation requirement probably isn’t a good return on our investment. 

Then why not just extend the duration of basic training rather than having to cut out other modules so you can address issues with lack of physical and mental conditioning of current recruits?  

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 11bee said:

Then why not just extend the duration of basic training rather than having to cut out other modules so you can address issues with lack of physical and mental conditioning of current recruits?  

I've always felt basic was about three or four weeks too short. Just about time you get in the right mind frame your getting ready to move on. Two major things come out of basic training or boot camp. One is getting everybody on good physical shape, and the other is strictly mental. You get those two, and the rest is easy. 

gary

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what you get out of 8 weeks of basic, I guess.  In the Marines we got 13, but we didn't throw grenades until MCT.  That sucks for those soldiers, I loved throwing grenades and flashbangs.  But as Geoff said earlier, where is this country going where one of the basic tools of any soldier is being dismissed from training, and no one has a problem with that, just because the noodle arms in the Army can't launch a pound of metal and explosive 25 meters?

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, tosouthern66 said:

I would not trust GPS for anything! Just had a cable technician come by to check my cable. The GPS system took him 4 blocks to the east of where I live. I'd rather go through Land Navigation to get me there.

I know the AF occasionally holds exercises that simulate operations with no GPS, no idea if the army can still do land nav and call in fires without GPS and networking assistance.   

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, jrpowell3 said:

That's what you get out of 8 weeks of basic, I guess.  In the Marines we got 13, but we didn't throw grenades until MCT.  That sucks for those soldiers, I loved throwing grenades and flashbangs.  But as Geoff said earlier, where is this country going where one of the basic tools of any soldier is being dismissed from training, and no one has a problem with that, just because the noodle arms in the Army can't launch a pound of metal and explosive 25 meters?

No idea what MCT is.  So for a Marine grunt how many weeks of training do they get prior to being assigned to a line unit?    

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, 11bee said:

No idea what MCT is.  So for a Marine grunt how many weeks of training do they get prior to being assigned to a line unit?    

MCT is Marine Combat Training, it's where all Marines who aren't Infantry go for 3 weeks before we go to our MOS school.  I was Amphibious Assault.  ITB, which is the Infantry Training Battalion, I think that lasts 2 months, maybe 3.  And that is after the 13wk boot camp.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, 11bee said:

Then why not just extend the duration of basic training rather than having to cut out other modules so you can address issues with lack of physical and mental conditioning of current recruits?  

TRADOC Pamphlet 350-70-9 will be your guide and crush your hope and dreams.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jrpowell3 said:

That's what you get out of 8 weeks of basic, I guess.  In the Marines we got 13, but we didn't throw grenades until MCT.  That sucks for those soldiers, I loved throwing grenades and flashbangs.  But as Geoff said earlier, where is this country going where one of the basic tools of any soldier is being dismissed from training, and no one has a problem with that, just because the noodle arms in the Army can't launch a pound of metal and explosive 25 meters?

Army basic is 10 weeks and they will continue to throw hand grenades. Marines are having the same issues....it isn't a specific branch.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Basic is followed by AIT, and after these two you start to learn your MOS. The samething for Marines and the Navy guys. The advanced training just gives you an idea what's going on, and after that you learn on the job. About the only serious things I learned was to shoot and hit what I aimed at. Rest was a waste of energy. 

 

I started out as number two on a six man recon team, but after crushing the First Shirt after an eight foot drop out of a slick I became number one. Knew absolutely zero about the job (and still don't know much), but I learned. I did my OJT in February and March 68, and nothing I learned in the states meant much except pulling the trigger. Even then they didn't teach me the important stuff. Old guys taught me how to walk, and move without moving anything and being dead silent. I learned to put my life in another man's hands, and vice versa.

glt

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 1:56 AM, fulcrum1 said:

 

It’s zero-sum. Adding one hour more of physical fitness training or rifle marksmanship means you have to take it away somewhere else. The time and effort put into baseline qual on Nav and Grenades to make the graduation requirement probably isn’t a good return on our investment. 

 

18 hours ago, 11bee said:

Then why not just extend the duration of basic training rather than having to cut out other modules so you can address issues with lack of physical and mental conditioning of current recruits?  

 

Back when I went through basic in 1990, it was 12 weeks long, but they were talking about making it shorter. They need to go back to twelve weeks and keep those qualifications. Besides, if you know someone who grenade qualified, then you know that they know what to do with it.......and God help you if you become LT by not knowing how to use a map, and you drop your IPhone in combat....... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, 11bee said:

I know the AF occasionally holds exercises that simulate operations with no GPS, no idea if the army can still do land nav and call in fires without GPS and networking assistance.   

 

8 hours ago, fulcrum1 said:

Neither have ever required network assistance or ever will.

I wonder if anyone is still trained on the SALUTE report.........

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...