F-4E Phantoms???

[Stefan buysse]

On ‎2‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:35 PM, skyhawk174 said:

 

They even had markings for an F-4F in one of them but of course it is just the E with a new decal sheet. I built it but back then I did not know about the filled in rear sparrow launch bays.

 

 

Hi,

 

Were the Luftwaffe F-4F rear Sparrow launch bays ever filled in?

I thought that was only on RF-4's.

 

Cheers, Stefan.

[mawz]

I'm 99.99% sure they weren't, as the F-4F ICE's mounted AIM-120's in all 4 fuselage positions.

If at anytime they were filled, that cover was removed with the ICE upgrade.

[Mstor]

12 hours ago, Niels said:

If you need one without slats, just cut off the ones that comes with the USAF version. 

 

Many, if not most, of the Hasegawa USAF F-4E kits had non-slatted wings. Check the link on my previous post. It will allow you to determine if a specific kit has slatted wings (which are sprues M or M* in the list).

[skyhawk174]

8 hours ago, Stefan buysse said:

 

Hi,

 

Were the Luftwaffe F-4F rear Sparrow launch bays ever filled in?

I thought that was only on RF-4's.

 

Cheers, Stefan.

 

Oops maybe you are right. I was sure i read it somewhere but maybe it was more that they did not use the rear sparrow bays? Or maybe I'm a goof and mixed up with the RF-4😂

Edited March 4, 2018 by skyhawk174

[Wild Weasel V]

11 hours ago, Niels said:

The F-4EJ will require modification of the wingtips as these are different than USAF versions

 

If you need one without slats, just cut off the ones that comes with the USAF version. 

 

The tip modification would be necessary if you used a F-4EJ Kai, the original F-4EJ wing tips were plain. If you used the slatted wing kit, to be truly accurate you'd have to rework the tip and restore the leading edge of the outermost wing as well as removing the slat arms and fence. The fin cap would also require the two small sensors to be removed. Other than that everything else is in the box to get you to a Vietnam era hard wing F-4E.

 

On the F-4F missile well covers, these were plain panels over the forward fin cut-outs only being removed when the jet was fitted with AIM-120s on alert duty. They were usually seen in a combination of (normally) all four or aft only. Here's three examples:

 

All four installed:

http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1046396/L/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-ICE-Phantom-II/3824/Luftwaffe/

and

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-Phantom-II/2296988/L?qsp=eJxtjrEOwjAMRP/FcxYohZKNLoxl4Acsx0Ck0ka2B6qq/07TSExsd/cs381A42D8sfuUGDwoo9ALHCQUfCv4GTAKCT6sRY1Uzprj/uR%2B4MoDy38EvqrO9c6BjmLttBYENL4QcTIOUPJOAktGrLQ1P/OSOkuWW3HNYbUhaupx%2B8KGsYdl%2BQJj/D74

 

Forward only installed:

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/f-4f-phantom-ii-ice-1.jpg

 

The Italeri kit is the old Esci F-4 with some new parts including a slightly better cockpit and a new windscreen part to replace the too-wide original plus jetpipes instead of a blank wall. It's a decent starting point for a hard wing F-4 but quite basic when compared to the Hasegawa. Like most  I'm eagerly waiting to see the new Zoukei Mura test shots. I suspect they'll issue a slatted version first as this give the widest variety of marking options.

[mawz]

21 minutes ago, skyhawk174 said:

 

Oops maybe you are right. I was sure i read it somewhere but maybe it was more that they did not use the rear sparrow bays? Or maybe I'm a goof and mixed up with the RF-4😂

It's more a case the F-4F never carried Sparrows (and in fact lacked the avionics to use them). When the ICE upgrade was done they acquired AIM-120 capability and used the Sparrow bays to carry them (ironically, the ICE upgrade made the F-4F technically capable of operating Sparrows for the first time, as it essentially used the avionics suite from an F/A-18D, which was Sparrow capable)

[skyhawk174]

27 minutes ago, mawz said:

It's more a case the F-4F never carried Sparrows (and in fact lacked the avionics to use them). When the ICE upgrade was done they acquired AIM-120 capability and used the Sparrow bays to carry them (ironically, the ICE upgrade made the F-4F technically capable of operating Sparrows for the first time, as it essentially used the avionics suite from an F/A-18D, which was Sparrow capable)

 

Cool info thanks. You know I recently got a book on the Luftwaffe Phantoms. Have not had a chance to read it and I really should go do that after all this talk of F-4Fs 😀

[DarkKnight]

Im hoping for a Z-M F4G

 

[Stefan buysse]

22 hours ago, Wild Weasel V said:

 

 

On the F-4F missile well covers, these were plain panels over the forward fin cut-outs only being removed when the jet was fitted with AIM-120s on alert duty. They were usually seen in a combination of (normally) all four or aft only. Here's three examples:

 

All four installed:

http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1046396/L/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-ICE-Phantom-II/3824/Luftwaffe/

and

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-Phantom-II/2296988/L?qsp=eJxtjrEOwjAMRP/FcxYohZKNLoxl4Acsx0Ck0ka2B6qq/07TSExsd/cs381A42D8sfuUGDwoo9ALHCQUfCv4GTAKCT6sRY1Uzprj/uR%2B4MoDy38EvqrO9c6BjmLttBYENL4QcTIOUPJOAktGrLQ1P/OSOkuWW3HNYbUhaupx%2B8KGsYdl%2BQJj/D74

 

 

Forward only installed:

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/f-4f-phantom-ii-ice-1.jpg

 

 

Hi,

 

Thanks for taking the time to clear that up.

 

Cheers, Stefan.

[Whiskey]

20 hours ago, DarkKnight said:

Im hoping for a Z-M F4G

 

 

 

As is the rest of the world my friend...

[DarkKnight]

^^^I dont think I'll ever get it but I'm also hoping for an F-4E(S) IAF , but I suppose thats the fun of scale modeling creating conversions, some times if you take forever to actually build a kit, a newer and better one comes out

Edited March 6, 2018 by DarkKnight

[Ben Brown]

On 3/4/2018 at 7:01 PM, Wild Weasel V said:

 

The tip modification would be necessary if you used a F-4EJ Kai, the original F-4EJ wing tips were plain. If you used the slatted wing kit, to be truly accurate you'd have to rework the tip and restore the leading edge of the outermost wing as well as removing the slat arms and fence. The fin cap would also require the two small sensors to be removed. Other than that everything else is in the box to get you to a Vietnam era hard wing F-4E.

 

On the F-4F missile well covers, these were plain panels over the forward fin cut-outs only being removed when the jet was fitted with AIM-120s on alert duty. They were usually seen in a combination of (normally) all four or aft only. Here's three examples:

 

All four installed:

http://www.irishairpics.com/photo/1046396/L/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-ICE-Phantom-II/3824/Luftwaffe/

and

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Germany-Air-Force/McDonnell-Douglas-F-4F-Phantom-II/2296988/L?qsp=eJxtjrEOwjAMRP/FcxYohZKNLoxl4Acsx0Ck0ka2B6qq/07TSExsd/cs381A42D8sfuUGDwoo9ALHCQUfCv4GTAKCT6sRY1Uzprj/uR%2B4MoDy38EvqrO9c6BjmLttBYENL4QcTIOUPJOAktGrLQ1P/OSOkuWW3HNYbUhaupx%2B8KGsYdl%2BQJj/D74

 

 

Forward only installed:

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/f-4f-phantom-ii-ice-1.jpg

 

The Italeri kit is the old Esci F-4 with some new parts including a slightly better cockpit and a new windscreen part to replace the too-wide original plus jetpipes instead of a blank wall. It's a decent starting point for a hard wing F-4 but quite basic when compared to the Hasegawa. Like most  I'm eagerly waiting to see the new Zoukei Mura test shots. I suspect they'll issue a slatted version first as this give the widest variety of marking options.

 

Were they removable panels or spring-loaded, hinged panels that the fins pushed out of the way when the missiles were loaded? I recall pushing on one of those covers on an F-4E gate guard and it rotated inward and was spring-loaded to close when I let go. 

 

I feel a little disloyal in looking forward to the Z-M long-nose F-4s, because I'm a big fan of the Hasegawa kits. 

 

Ben

 

[Wild Weasel V]

Hi Ben,

 

The panels were removable. The spring loaded door you mention is part of the launcher assembly for the missile. As the German Air Force didn't need them they designed a cover to replace the redundant AIM-7 system. When the KWS/ICE upgrade was implemented a new, unique, launcher was installed. If you have Jake's excellent 'The Modern Phantom Guide' there's a series of photos on page 202 showing close-ups of both the infill panel and the AAML-1 launcher installation for the AIM-120. They're one of those things that you don't know are there until you see them, then you can't not see them!

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

 

PS. I know what you mean about the Hasegawa F-4s although I'm not missing having to deal with the joints between the lower wing and the forward fuselage. I've never been entirely successful in completely eliminating the seams without losing all the detail around it. Still, I've got plenty left in the stash to practise on.

[Ben Brown]

Hi Jonathan,

 

Thanks for the clarification! 

 

I feel your pain on the wing to fuselage join. I'm in the middle of battling that area right now on an FG.1. 

 

Ben