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USS Lexington found in Coral Sea


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6 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Wow.    Did you see that TBD?  Looks like it just went down yesterday.    


I'm betting that except for the areas where fire stripped away the paint..Lex is likely in very good shape considering what happened. These very deep water pacific wrecks are turning out to be extremely well preserved..Yorktown had visible paint, Indianapolis still has her camo intact and now that TBD. 

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Man, I know the Lex is war grave and should be left alone but some of those aircraft are in amazing shape.  I'd love to see this F4F retrieved and placed in a spot of honor at the National Air and Space Museum (minus any "restoration" that museums are all to quick to rush in to).  

28424899_10160063301960174_7220984242160816658_o

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Wonder if Paul Allen website is seeing heavy traffic since it is not loading in any of 3 different browsers. 

Playing in Google found this article and video on website of US Naval Institute, whose Proceedings magazine Dad got while he was in Navy.

https://news.usni.org/2018/03/05/video-billionaire-paul-allen-finds-lost-world-war-ii-carrier-uss-lexington

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14 minutes ago, southwestforests said:

Wonder if Paul Allen website is seeing heavy traffic since it is not loading in any of 3 different browsers.

Must be. I was there this morning without issue, now it took a while to load.

 

 

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On 3/5/2018 at 12:34 PM, Jonathan_Lotton said:


I'm betting that except for the areas where fire stripped away the paint..Lex is likely in very good shape considering what happened.

Article I saw said she is in three pieces: bow, stern and bridge.  The aircraft in the photos were quite a distance from the wreck pieces if I remember right.

 

Rick L.

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One thing I would like to point out, the F4F found has the VF-3 squadron badge painted right below the cockpit, however, VF-3 was not aboard the Lexington when she went down.

 

 

VF-3 transferred several of their aircraft to VF-2 who had just converted over from the F2A Buffalo, guess VF-2 didn't have time to paint out Felix. If you notice that the blue/grey paint around the aircraft number is "fresher" than the surrounding blue/grey, VF-2 changed the aircraft number but didn't paint out Felix..............

 

This also leads to the question, are the kill markings a carry over from VF-3 or are the VF-2's?

 

Edited by GW8345
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9 hours ago, GW8345 said:

One thing I would like to point out, the F4F found has the VF-3 squadron badge painted right below the cockpit, however, VF-3 was not aboard the Lexington when she went down.

 

 

VF-3 transferred several of their aircraft to VF-2 who had just converted over from the F2A Buffalo, guess VF-2 didn't have time to paint out Felix. If you notice that the blue/grey paint around the aircraft number is "fresher" than the surrounding blue/grey, VF-2 changed the aircraft number but didn't paint out Felix..............

 

This also leads to the question, are the kill markings a carry over from VF-3 or are the VF-2's?

 

ARC is a bit dead these days, when it comes to threads like this.   There are multiple discussions on these planes over on HS if you are interested, including the F4F shown above.   Just a fascinating subject.  Those TBD's are amazing.  They still have the exhaust stains from when they flew their last mission!  

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As a combat vet, I think I have an opinion about this wreck. Leave it untouched!!! There are over 200 young men down there on that ship. One (and also one of the few things) of the few things you know for sure about combat is that your remains will always be treated with dignity, and you also know you will treat your buddy's remains with dignity. Some guys take it a little more serious than others, but we all respect each other. It's really the only sure thing we have. 

Please don't violate that trust.

gary

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I definitely agree with you regarding the 'war grave' aspect, Chesshire, as least where the ship itself is concerned.  However, if you look at the debris field, the concentration of aircraft found thus far (7 TBD-1, 3 SBD-3 and 1 F4F-3) are miles from the actual ship, and probably ended up there as a result of sliding off the flight deck as she went under.  The historian in me would like to see a few of the aircraft make it to the surface, even if they never get restored, to serve as a visual reminder of a brave ship and her crewmembers who were lost to eternity 76 years ago.  Paul Allen has a soft spot for rare and sometimes "last of its kind" aircraft, so I could see (hope?) that he uses his resources to raise some of this historic aircraft.

 

Semper Fi,

 

Ski

28870222_10155552960408666_1563561425281558664_n.jpg

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1 hour ago, ChesshireCat said:

As a combat vet, I think I have an opinion about this wreck. Leave it untouched!!! There are over 200 young men down there on that ship. One (and also one of the few things) of the few things you know for sure about combat is that your remains will always be treated with dignity, and you also know you will treat your buddy's remains with dignity. Some guys take it a little more serious than others, but we all respect each other. It's really the only sure thing we have. 

Please don't violate that trust.

gary


It's really all up to the US Navy if they wish to recover one of the aircraft which were likely either ditched or fell off/out of the ship as she went down. I imagine the most they'd ever do with the wreck itself is recover her bell if they can locate it. 

Edited by Jonathan_Lotton
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4 minutes ago, midnightprowler said:

1. I thought salt water was corrosive?

2. Someone above said 200 men were buried with her. We torpedoed her to sink her, why would we do that with men aboard?

1.  Many factors are involved with how quickly metal corrodes.

2.  The Lex was a sinking, burning wreck.  Night was falling and the US fleet needed to move on.  Couldn't allow her to possibly fall into Japanese hands.   I have no idea if they did a compartment by compartment search for survivors (or if they even had access to all the compartments).   Hopefully all those sailors had already passed before they gave the order to sink her but we'll never know.  Such is war....

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 The Captain was the last off the ship and he verified that all living sailors were evacuated. And there is very little oxygen in salt water 2 miles down. Corrosion takes much longer at those depths.

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I think it is awesome that people have been willing to expend the money and time to search for these famous wrecks. I wish that more sailors entering the Navy had an interest or knowledge of our history (this is not a condemnation of our youth, there are many great kids coming in to the submarine force, I am simply stating a fact). I for one would love to see the aircraft and bell (if it can be found) raised and displayed as a testament to the men who lost their lives, but the wreck itself is a grave and should be left alone. 

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

1.  Many factors are involved with how quickly metal corrodes.

2.  The Lex was a sinking, burning wreck.  Night was falling and the US fleet needed to move on.  Couldn't allow her to possibly fall into Japanese hands.   I have no idea if they did a compartment by compartment search for survivors (or if they even had access to all the compartments).   Hopefully all those sailors had already passed before they gave the order to sink her but we'll never know.  Such is war....

R

 

34 minutes ago, WymanV said:

 The Captain was the last off the ship and he verified that all living sailors were evacuated. And there is very little oxygen in salt water 2 miles down. Corrosion takes much longer at those depths.

Thanks guys. Amazing to find the wreck in this condition.

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On 3/5/2018 at 4:00 PM, 11bee said:

Man, I know the Lex is war grave and should be left alone but some of those aircraft are in amazing shape.  I'd love to see this F4F retrieved and placed in a spot of honor at the National Air and Space Museum (minus any "restoration" that museums are all to quick to rush in to).  

28424899_10160063301960174_7220984242160816658_o

 

I read some interesting information on this Wildcat, there is more information at Paul Allen's facebook page and the pictures are clearer. Someone else did this research, I am only passing it on.

 

This WIlcat belonged to Lieut. Noel A. M. Gayler's F4F-3 , VF-2 XO during the Coral Sea Battle. 

In the other pictures on Allen's site the letters of pilot's name are clear under the canopy: GA****R. (in the coral)

 

There are four IJN flags. Gayler shot down THREE Mitsubishi G4M "Betties" (including 2 in group) during the abortive raid on Rabaul February 2, 1942. He added a Nakajima E8N floatplane during the Lae-Salamoua raid March 8, 1942. Therefore he had FOUR victories before Coral Sea battle.
 

The "Bomb" mark;  During the Lae-Salamoua raid Gayler's division of F4F's attacked the Japanese AA positions with 30-lb bombs.

Lieut. Noel A. M. Gayler was one of the 12 VF-3 pilots (with 19 F4F-3 planes with Felix cats) transfered to VF-2 just before the battle of Coral Sea.

 

Lieut. Noel A. M. Gayler was one of the 9 VF-2 pilots on board "Lady Lex" when the ship was lost, so his plane had to be there too.

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19 hours ago, parche said:

 I wish that more sailors entering the Navy had an interest or knowledge of our history (this is not a condemnation of our youth, there are many great kids coming in to the submarine force, I am simply stating a fact).

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

Agree 100%. We spend TOO MUCH time "training" on idiotic crap like sexual harassment and "trafficking in persons", the list goes on and I don't want to go down that road. Meanwhile, guys enlist/reenlisted, swearing to "uphold and defend the Constitution"...a document most all of them have never even READ! I made it a point to hand my guys who were reenlisting a copy of it (you can get simple little paperback copies at about any bookstore...) prior to reenlisting. I'd mention to the Career Counselors to get a stack of them to have on hand but that typically fell on deaf ears.

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18 hours ago, Scooby said:

 

Lieut. Noel A. M. Gayler was one of the 12 VF-3 pilots (with 19 F4F-3 planes with Felix cats) transfered to VF-2 just before the battle of Coral Sea.
 

Lieut. Noel A. M. Gayler was one of the 9 VF-2 pilots on board "Lady Lex" when the ship was lost, so his plane had to be there too.

Any further info on this pilot?  Did he get off the ship prior to it going down and if so, any idea if he made it through the rest of the war?

 

Sounds like Fundekals is doing a sheet on these aircraft, F-5 would be pretty cool subject.  

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11 minutes ago, 11bee said:

Any further info on this pilot?  Did he get off the ship prior to it going down and if so, any idea if he made it through the rest of the war?

 

Sounds like Fundekals is doing a sheet on these aircraft, F-5 would be pretty cool subject.  

 

 

 

 Admiral Gayler passed away in 2011.

Edited by WymanV
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4 hours ago, 11bee said:

Any further info on this pilot?  Did he get off the ship prior to it going down and if so, any idea if he made it through the rest of the war?

 

Sounds like Fundekals is doing a sheet on these aircraft, F-5 would be pretty cool subject.  

That would be awesome. Where did you hear they were going to do the decals?

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