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F9F-5 VF-781 Lt Royce Williams


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I'm a glutten for punishment. I'm starting on Lt Royce Williams F9F-5 which he

used to down 4 Russian Mig-15s in 1952 while flying CAP over the Oriskany.

The story never came out until 1992 when the Russians themselves said Williams

had indeed shot down 4 of their Mig-15s. I have the decals from Hasegawa's F9F-2

from VF-781 and they are pretty much the same style as they used on their later cruise

with the F9F-5s. I just need to rearrange some numbers. Here's the start, I have just washed the

parts and started with the seat. I shaved off that silly looking shelf on the head rest

and have added side rails and foot rests so far.---John

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I have the cockpit and instrument panel painted and installed. I also added

a pad to the headrest and made rope pull ejection handles from copper wire.

I still need to make the seat harnesses.---John

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Edited by john53
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I have the fuselage sanded and the tail added to the fuselage. I noticed that there is no

gun gas vent on the fuselage by the nose, will have to scratch build them. I also have the

wings assembled and I added the hole to the front of the wing tip tanks with my scribe.---John

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Family portrait. I have the wings on and puttied. I left the wing fences off until

I get the wings sanded.I did some measuring out of curiosity and the Hasegawa

dash 2 is 6.25" nose to tail, that scales to about 37.5 ' thats 37 '- 6". Grumman says

it's 37'- 5 3/8", Hasegawa is off by 5/8".....not bad. Revell's dash 5 is 6.46" nose to tail  or

38.76' that's 38'- 9 1/8". Grumman says the dash 5 is 38'- 10 1/2" long, Revell is

1 3/8" off but still in the ball park. So the difference between Hasegawa and Revell

is 1'- 3 1/8".......it should be 1'-5 1/8"------I can live with that. In scale  Hasegawa is off

.0086" and Revell is off .019"....for the rivet counters.---John

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Edited by john53
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Thanks, sanding done but I found a couple low spots so I added a bit more

putty. More worthless trivia facts---I measured the Hasegawa and Revell wing

dimensions. Hasegawa's was 6.30" and Revell's was 6.28", real close. The

real deal dimension for dash 2 and dash 5 should be 38 feet even. Hasegawa's

comes closest at 37 feet 9 5/8 inches and Revell's is 37 feet 7 5/16 inches.The

correct wingspan in 1/72 scale is 6.333 inches---John

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Edited by john53
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All sanded and the wing fences are on. I need to sand them a bit to get the right taper

on the top side. I also have to fill the gap next to them on the wing, the original kit fences

were about 3 times thicker, way out of proportion.---John

1QLUuvH.jpg

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On 3/14/2018 at 9:03 PM, john53 said:

I did some measuring out of curiosity and the Hasegawa

dash 2 is 6.25" nose to tail, that scales to about 37.5 ' thats 37 '- 6". Grumman says

it's 37'- 5 3/8", Hasegawa is off by 5/8".....not bad. Revell's dash 5 is 6.46" nose to tail  or

38.76' that's 38'- 9 1/8". Grumman says the dash 5 is 38'- 10 1/2" long, Revell is

1 3/8" off but still in the ball park. So the difference between Hasegawa and Revell

is 1'- 3 1/8".......it should be 1'-5 1/8"------I can live with that. In scale  Hasegawa is off

.0086" and Revell is off .019"....for the rivet counters.---John

 

Thanks for going to the trouble to measure them. However, according to Grumman drawings (see https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/grumman-panther.html), the -2 was 37' 11 5/16 inches long measured along the waterline. (The -5 was 38' 10 1/16" long on their drawings.) The difference was 8" inserted in the -5's  fuselage just ahead of the inlets and the trailing edge of its vertical tail extending 1 3/4" farther aft.

 

The error appears to stem from the dimension on the XF9F-2 SAC, which was 37' 6", presumably rounded up. Later SACs, using the same drawing as near as I can tell, give the same measurement as 37' 11", rounded down. See http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2018/03/grumman-f9f-2-panther-length.html

Edited by Tailspin Turtle
Clarity
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Thanks Tommy, the problem as I was told was actually Grumman's fault for

giving out bogus dimensions. That's why the Revell and Trumpeter kits aren't

right, they didn't screw up Grumman did. Or so I am told. They should be in 1/72

scale .111 inches different and I get .21 inches different. I did try to measure

along the waterline more or less. I used Starrett scales from back in the day

when I worked in a machine shop, I am retired and my verniers and micrometers

are long gone.---John

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I'm pretty sure that Grumman didn't give out bogus dimensions. The problem is what the dimension is from and to, particularly with respect to length.The Cougar fuselage is an example. First, whether it was a -6/7 or a -8. Second, there's the length along the waterline versus the length of the "shadow"  on the ground. Third, the length varied depending on whether it included the tip of the refueling probe, or the barricade deflector (it stuck out about three inches in front of the nose and kept the straps from hanging up on a cannon barrel, potentially slewing the airplane around), or the tip of the nose cone itself. You can usually rely on the wing span in a table as opposed to the length, for which you really need to be working with a dimensioned drawing, preferably showing fuselage stations. However, Grumman made fuselage-station usage a challenge when they inserted eight inches into the fuselage of the -2 to create the -5. See the drawing note:

Eight Inches.jpg

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Thanks, it does get frustrating. I have some more work done. I have the gaps next to the

fences filled,not set up yet so not sanded, and have started working on the rear deck. I have

the stretched sprue on and the deck is painted.---John

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I started building the hot air defrost tubes for the rear deck.

I used a bigger wire than I did on my -2 Panther. I used .025"

lead and it was too small in scale, this is copper wire .063".

More to the correct size in scale.---John

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John,

  I'm really enjoying your build to date. And I especially liked the story of Lt Royce Williams F9F-5 downing 4 Mig-15s. I'm always looking for Grumman builds to follow as it's my favorite aircraft manufacture as I grew up maybe 15-20 min from the main gate at the Bethpage plant. 

 

Joel

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The wing fences are sanded up, seat, stick, gun sight and horizontal stabilizers

all on. I did put the kit tail hook on but it dissapeared, I tink it may have fallen into

the fuselage, I made one out of lead wire, the kit one was no real loss.---John

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I guess you are talking about the seam I missed and didn't

putty? I just did it,was bothering me. If you mean the way Matchbox

actually molded the tail to fuselage forget it, ain't happening. I have almost

gone through 1/2 a tube of putty between this one and the Hasegawa dash

2. Insanity doesn't run in the family.....yet. It's my hobby, not obsession. Thanks

for the information though, I do appreciate it, but dam when is someone going to

buck up and make a new tool mold for theses? This trying to make a masterpiece

out of 30and 40 year old inaccurate worn out molds is ridiculous.---John

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Edited by john53
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I sanded the rear tail area and went on to more important things. I

cut down the gun barrels, they are way too long. I did this before using

Hasegawa's dash 2 as a model, they are a bit too long also but much

more respectable than the kit's. I cut them about 3 mm long from point

to flat end of gun barrel. I put an angle on one end, that angled end attaches

to the gun port openings in the nose.---John

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