john53 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 I'm a glutten for punishment. I'm starting on Lt Royce Williams F9F-5 which he used to down 4 Russian Mig-15s in 1952 while flying CAP over the Oriskany. The story never came out until 1992 when the Russians themselves said Williams had indeed shot down 4 of their Mig-15s. I have the decals from Hasegawa's F9F-2 from VF-781 and they are pretty much the same style as they used on their later cruise with the F9F-5s. I just need to rearrange some numbers. Here's the start, I have just washed the parts and started with the seat. I shaved off that silly looking shelf on the head rest and have added side rails and foot rests so far.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) I have the cockpit and instrument panel painted and installed. I also added a pad to the headrest and made rope pull ejection handles from copper wire. I still need to make the seat harnesses.---John Edited March 11, 2018 by john53 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 I have the fuselage sanded and the tail added to the fuselage. I noticed that there is no gun gas vent on the fuselage by the nose, will have to scratch build them. I also have the wings assembled and I added the hole to the front of the wing tip tanks with my scribe.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlienFrogModeller Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Love a good story to a build! Looking good sir. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 (edited) Thanks, tail sanded and I scratch built the gun gas vents for the forward fuselage.---John Edited March 13, 2018 by john53 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 I scratch built new wing fences, the kits are the wrong shape and too thick. I used .015" card stock, may need a bit more filing to get the taper I want.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Family portrait. I have the wings on and puttied. I left the wing fences off until I get the wings sanded.I did some measuring out of curiosity and the Hasegawa dash 2 is 6.25" nose to tail, that scales to about 37.5 ' thats 37 '- 6". Grumman says it's 37'- 5 3/8", Hasegawa is off by 5/8".....not bad. Revell's dash 5 is 6.46" nose to tail or 38.76' that's 38'- 9 1/8". Grumman says the dash 5 is 38'- 10 1/2" long, Revell is 1 3/8" off but still in the ball park. So the difference between Hasegawa and Revell is 1'- 3 1/8".......it should be 1'-5 1/8"------I can live with that. In scale Hasegawa is off .0086" and Revell is off .019"....for the rivet counters.---John Edited March 15, 2018 by john53 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Major Walt Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 That is one cool looking bird! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) Thanks, sanding done but I found a couple low spots so I added a bit more putty. More worthless trivia facts---I measured the Hasegawa and Revell wing dimensions. Hasegawa's was 6.30" and Revell's was 6.28", real close. The real deal dimension for dash 2 and dash 5 should be 38 feet even. Hasegawa's comes closest at 37 feet 9 5/8 inches and Revell's is 37 feet 7 5/16 inches.The correct wingspan in 1/72 scale is 6.333 inches---John Edited March 15, 2018 by john53 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 All sanded and the wing fences are on. I need to sand them a bit to get the right taper on the top side. I also have to fill the gap next to them on the wing, the original kit fences were about 3 times thicker, way out of proportion.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 What a cool story, I never heard of this before. Lt Williams is a real hero. Nice work on the Panther, I’ll be following this closely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks ,TC at Modelling Madness did a big write up on this when a build review of the Monogram 1/48 F9F-5 Panther , check it out. ---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) On 3/14/2018 at 9:03 PM, john53 said: I did some measuring out of curiosity and the Hasegawa dash 2 is 6.25" nose to tail, that scales to about 37.5 ' thats 37 '- 6". Grumman says it's 37'- 5 3/8", Hasegawa is off by 5/8".....not bad. Revell's dash 5 is 6.46" nose to tail or 38.76' that's 38'- 9 1/8". Grumman says the dash 5 is 38'- 10 1/2" long, Revell is 1 3/8" off but still in the ball park. So the difference between Hasegawa and Revell is 1'- 3 1/8".......it should be 1'-5 1/8"------I can live with that. In scale Hasegawa is off .0086" and Revell is off .019"....for the rivet counters.---John Thanks for going to the trouble to measure them. However, according to Grumman drawings (see https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/grumman-panther.html), the -2 was 37' 11 5/16 inches long measured along the waterline. (The -5 was 38' 10 1/16" long on their drawings.) The difference was 8" inserted in the -5's fuselage just ahead of the inlets and the trailing edge of its vertical tail extending 1 3/4" farther aft. The error appears to stem from the dimension on the XF9F-2 SAC, which was 37' 6", presumably rounded up. Later SACs, using the same drawing as near as I can tell, give the same measurement as 37' 11", rounded down. See http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2018/03/grumman-f9f-2-panther-length.html Edited March 16, 2018 by Tailspin Turtle Clarity Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks Tommy, the problem as I was told was actually Grumman's fault for giving out bogus dimensions. That's why the Revell and Trumpeter kits aren't right, they didn't screw up Grumman did. Or so I am told. They should be in 1/72 scale .111 inches different and I get .21 inches different. I did try to measure along the waterline more or less. I used Starrett scales from back in the day when I worked in a machine shop, I am retired and my verniers and micrometers are long gone.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I'm pretty sure that Grumman didn't give out bogus dimensions. The problem is what the dimension is from and to, particularly with respect to length.The Cougar fuselage is an example. First, whether it was a -6/7 or a -8. Second, there's the length along the waterline versus the length of the "shadow" on the ground. Third, the length varied depending on whether it included the tip of the refueling probe, or the barricade deflector (it stuck out about three inches in front of the nose and kept the straps from hanging up on a cannon barrel, potentially slewing the airplane around), or the tip of the nose cone itself. You can usually rely on the wing span in a table as opposed to the length, for which you really need to be working with a dimensioned drawing, preferably showing fuselage stations. However, Grumman made fuselage-station usage a challenge when they inserted eight inches into the fuselage of the -2 to create the -5. See the drawing note: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks, I won't waste my time measuring any more. If there is no ISO then you, I, or anyone else can measure any way you want. That makes a lot of "non" sense!---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Considering that at best I can measure something like a fuselage to one mm, which is almost three inches in 1/72, I agree. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks, it does get frustrating. I have some more work done. I have the gaps next to the fences filled,not set up yet so not sanded, and have started working on the rear deck. I have the stretched sprue on and the deck is painted.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 I started building the hot air defrost tubes for the rear deck. I used a bigger wire than I did on my -2 Panther. I used .025" lead and it was too small in scale, this is copper wire .063". More to the correct size in scale.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 John, I'm really enjoying your build to date. And I especially liked the story of Lt Royce Williams F9F-5 downing 4 Mig-15s. I'm always looking for Grumman builds to follow as it's my favorite aircraft manufacture as I grew up maybe 15-20 min from the main gate at the Bethpage plant. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 I have the hot air ducts painted and a harness added to the seat.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 The wing fences are sanded up, seat, stick, gun sight and horizontal stabilizers all on. I did put the kit tail hook on but it dissapeared, I tink it may have fallen into the fuselage, I made one out of lead wire, the kit one was no real loss.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 You should consider fairing the vertical fin into the upper fuselage more than the kit does. See http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2009/10/grumman-panther.html or compare this model to the Hasegawa Panther in that area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) I guess you are talking about the seam I missed and didn't putty? I just did it,was bothering me. If you mean the way Matchbox actually molded the tail to fuselage forget it, ain't happening. I have almost gone through 1/2 a tube of putty between this one and the Hasegawa dash 2. Insanity doesn't run in the family.....yet. It's my hobby, not obsession. Thanks for the information though, I do appreciate it, but dam when is someone going to buck up and make a new tool mold for theses? This trying to make a masterpiece out of 30and 40 year old inaccurate worn out molds is ridiculous.---John Edited March 18, 2018 by john53 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john53 Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 I sanded the rear tail area and went on to more important things. I cut down the gun barrels, they are way too long. I did this before using Hasegawa's dash 2 as a model, they are a bit too long also but much more respectable than the kit's. I cut them about 3 mm long from point to flat end of gun barrel. I put an angle on one end, that angled end attaches to the gun port openings in the nose.---John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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