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RichardL

Obsession with FS 36170: Who Got It Right?

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BTW, I will be doing the same exercises for:

  • Light Gull Gray (early Navy jets, such as F-14A, A-4, A-7, S-3A)
  • Light Ghost Gray & Dark Ghost Gray (late F-14, F-15A, F-15C, F-15D, F-18)
  • Gunship Gray (F-16, F-15E)

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43 minutes ago, RichardL said:

BTW, I will be doing the same exercises for:

  • Light Gull Gray (early Navy jets, such as F-14A, A-4, A-7, S-3A)
  • Light Ghost Gray & Dark Ghost Gray (late F-14, F-15A, F-15C, F-15D, F-18)
  • Gunship Gray (F-16, F-15E)

 

This is great. I have become a stickler about using the right colors in my old age. I look forward to your continued research and will definitely be able to make use of the info you come up with.

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2 hours ago, Rex said:

Heck, just grabbing a random White or Black will also change the colors in ways that are not planned.

 

Since FS Whites and Blacks were different colors from each other,,,,,,if the model paint actually matches the FS standard,,,,,you might get different colors on two different models,,,,,,,while thinking you are using the "exact same color, just a different gloss."

 

Oh man, isn't this true. Especially with whites. Some are warm, some are cool. adding the wrong one to a color can have disastrous effects. Ask me how I know ;-) Even blacks can be subtly warm or cool. One must be very observant when using these innocuous seeming two colors. Now, if one is aware of the difference, as noted, subtle effects can be achieved, but the unaware can be unpleasantly surprised.

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"Light Gull Gray, etc"

 

Oh, I can hardly wait for this. Maybe people will for once and for all figure out and believe that 36440 NS Light Gull Gray and 16440 G Light Gray (Officially renamed by the USN in 1972) were different colors, not just "sheen changes." Please, please, flop the 16440 and 36440 FS chips on top of each other and post a photo when you do those colors,,,,,ala' Dana Bell's slide of 36440, ANA 620 and ANA 602 that he shows at his Nats Seminar. (clearly shows that those three colors are different)

 

Mstor,  we might call that the "Ziplock effect",,,,,,as per their addverts "Yellow and Blue make Green."

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2 hours ago, Rex said:

Mstor,  we might call that the "Ziplock effect",,,,,,as per their addverts "Yellow and Blue make Green."

 

Too funny :clap2:

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On 2018-03-11 at 9:07 PM, dehowie said:

Having photographed the new Have Glass 5 at Red Flag only a few weeks ago the tone, sheen and metallic effect is directly proportional to both sunlight and angle of reflection.

No one color has the properties of the real paint.

In over ast conditions its a very dark almost gunship grey yet in bright sun and the correct angle it almost goes bronze in patches refelected.

Ill put some pics up shortly but i think anyone who has seen the aircraft in the flesh knows what im talking about.

The properties of this paint make it very difficult to capture it as a one size fits all type of thing..

Far from easy...

 

 

Agree, although what he did here was compare the colors to an actual color chip under the same lighting.

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11 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

Just spray the different manufacturer's Light Gull Gray against each other and you'll see they are all different. I actually put that to good use to get some nice tonal variation.

That is true. I once tried spraying Gunze lacquer against Model Master enamel of the same FS# and they just don't look the same, I wondered how the hell could this happen!!

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11 hours ago, Scooby said:

Happy I bought the Mr. Paint.

 

Remember, it is the color that is a match, not necessarily the Have Glass V effect. That is what concerns me as much if not more.

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On 3/14/2018 at 1:45 PM, RichardL said:

BTW, I will be doing the same exercises for:

  • Light Gull Gray (early Navy jets, such as F-14A, A-4, A-7, S-3A)
  • Light Ghost Gray & Dark Ghost Gray (late F-14, F-15A, F-15C, F-15D, F-18)
  • Gunship Gray (F-16, F-15E)

 

Thank you very much for the F-35 colors. Very useful.

 

I'd love it if you can do the same test with the Mod Eagle colors (both the light and dark grays). I am extremely interested in Tamiya, Gunze, Hobby Aqueous, MRP (anything that is non-enamel, non-testors, and non-lifecolor really). I believe MRP has these two paints but not sure how good a match they are. 

 

Of course, I am all ears if anyone has good pointers for the ModEagle colors (FS 36176, FS 36251) directly from the bottle or in the form of mixes. 

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1 hour ago, Janissary said:

I'd love it if you can do the same test with the Mod Eagle colors (both the light and dark grays).

 

Okay.  Will put the Mod Eagle colors on my to-do list.

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On 3/11/2018 at 7:59 PM, Mstor said:

As you stated, there is also the issue of gloss and other coats that one would apply to the paint diffusing the metallic effect.

 

As suspected, multiple clear coats erased the metallic effect:

 

pic17.jpg

 

In the picture above, I got two coats of MPR-048 Super Clear Gloss on top of the base color coat and have glass coat.  I then applied a test decal and sealed it with another coat of Super Clear Gloss.  Once that's dried, I sprayed a coat of MRP-127 Super Clear Matte to dull everything down.  As you can see, the metallic glitter is no longer present.

 

Instead of applying the final flat coat, maybe we can spray the have glass matte coat over everything at the end.  This would preserve the metallic effect.  I wonder if it's weird for the decals and ram tape to have a slight metallic sheen to them.

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2 hours ago, RichardL said:

As you can see, the metallic glitter is no longer present.

 

I was afraid of this. I have a feeling that clear coats over the other Have Glass paints will diminish the effect more or less too. I still think that mixing a fine grain metallic with the correct base coat might give the best results. Its a shame the MRP color isn't already glossy. It would cut down on the number of clear coats. Or, one might be able to get away without using the sealing coat over the decals. I think that risky though.

Well, we are sending you back to the drawing board! Carry on Sir! :rolleyes:

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4 hours ago, Mstor said:

Its a shame the MRP color isn't already glossy.

 

Actually, MRP color is satin and smooth, so it's not really necessary to gloss coat it before decaling.

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When I did the 32nd scale F-35 I used the MRP HG clear as the final clear coat. Gave a good result, IMO. It appears slightly less obvious over the lighter gray of the markings and RAM panels.

 

FWIW...

 

M

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3 hours ago, Matt Walker said:

When I did the 32nd scale F-35 I used the MRP HG clear as the final clear coat. Gave a good result, IMO. It appears slightly less obvious over the lighter gray of the markings and RAM panels.

 

FWIW...

 

M

 

That's encouraging. Good to know, thanks.

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On 3/14/2018 at 12:53 PM, Rex said:

Please, please, flop the 16440 and 36440 FS chips on top of each other and post a photo when you do those colors

 

Got my AMS-STD-595A color chips for Light Gull Gray:

 

pic18.jpg

 

The two colors look very close to me, with FS 16440 being just a hint lighter at certain viewing angle, possibly reflecting more light back to the viewer for being glossy.

 

pic19.png

 

pic20.png

 

The two colors can appear different depending on the viewing angle relative to the light source:

 

pic21.png

 

pic22.png

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a truely fine and great job richardL.

i believe that you gained the thanks and reverence of all of the arc members.

btw, this part of your research supports my own philosophy to use matt paints and then coat the model with satin or, if a glossy look is indispensable, a semi-gloss clear finish.

this is my credo for 1/144 up to 1/48 scales; i don't build in 1/32...because i have no place enough...and at any rate, although fascinating for the degree of detailing you can get to, dunno, but such big models cease somehow to be in the innocent and "impressionistic" realm of modeling to enter the rigorous one of museums.

this is just my personal opinion, of course, but the big scales lack, loose, that naivety and (relative) improvisative freedom of the smaller ones.

again, congrats for your hell of a contribution and the time you dedicated to all of us.

best ciaos...and happy modeling!

bobo.

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1 hour ago, Froggy said:

Thanks for sharing Richards!

 

 

My pleasure.  I will start another thread on FS 16440 once I have all the color swatches painted.

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Oh, yes, they match today, and have matched since 1984.

 

I thought you had a set from pre-1984, when they didn't match, and the three colors 16440, 26440, and 36440 were in fact from three different Munsell pages.

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I wish I found this post a few month ago.  I have tried AKAN and it seems to light.  I recently purchase Mission Models FS36170.  The brand is excellent.  I had no problems spraying it through an airbrush.  But I think the metallic specks are not subtle enough.  Maybe due to the scale?  

 

I am interested to try Gunze's RLM75.  Would Mr. Color RLM75 have the same sheen as the acrylic version?

 

Thanks!

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2 hours ago, B2Blain said:

 I recently purchase Mission Models FS36170.  The brand is excellent.  I had no problems spraying it through an airbrush.  But I think the metallic specks are not subtle enough.

 

Mission Models FS36170 might look OK after a few clear gloss coats and flat coats to tone down the metallic specks.  I will check to see if Mr. Color RLM75 has the same hue as Gunze's version.

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