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Aussie Hornet purchase


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Soooo.... what benifits will we taxpayers reap from buying used Hornets? Lower price? Allowing us to avoid on the depreciation following a New purchase like an auto? How can I justify this? What are the pros?

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avoiding to have train all the staff/pilots/tech for an interim aircraft... no need to create an all new approvisionnement chain for that specific AC.  

second hand Hornets should allow RCAF to continue "seamlessly" while the new Fighter is chosen... 

 

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39 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Avoiding having to buy F-35?

if it was built elsewhere (than southern USA) it would be a whole lot easier  to select the F-35...

but since slightly more than 13 months, USA have adopted a (more and more)  bullying stance, even with Canada... 

 

as a Canadian, i have, since then, cancelled(or stopped) all my businesses with any entity south the border.

 

 

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2 hours ago, mingwin said:

 

as a Canadian, i have, since then, cancelled(or stopped) all my businesses with any entity south the border.

 

 

So the trade war is actually your fault!   Way to go Mingwin.   

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One benefit is not having to create a new supply chain/spare parts logistics, buy new support equipment/tools/publications and send all the maintainers through maintenance school.

 

There's a lot more behind the scenes things that have to happen when a new platform is introduced besides training the pilots/aircrew. You have to stock up on spare parts, get all the publications for the aircraft, get any support equipment that is specialized for that platform, train the maintainers and set up a logistics supply chain in order to get the parts/support from the warehouse to the plane. By buying addition platforms that are already in inventory you already have all that in place, you are you doing is just increasing the inventory of the platform, not adding a new on to inventory.

Edited by GW8345
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3 hours ago, mingwin said:

if it was built elsewhere (than southern USA) it would be a whole lot easier  to select the F-35...

but since slightly more than 13 months, USA have adopted a (more and more)  bullying stance, even with Canada... 

 

as a Canadian, i have, since then, cancelled(or stopped) all my businesses with any entity south the border.

 

 

And yet our economy is doing better than ever:thumbsup:

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58 minutes ago, 11bee said:

So the trade war is actually your fault!   Way to go Mingwin.   

:rofl:...no in fact, i've just chosen "Canada First" as motto.  (then UK and Europe, Japan, OZ&NZ, HK and China...then...)

 

10 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

And yet our economy is doing better than ever:thumbsup:

sure, but it has nothing to do with the degradation of USA's relationship with its Allies...

and very little to do with who's in command in the White House in the lasts 13 months...

USA's economy was already one of the most performing economies of the world. and still...

 

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2 hours ago, mingwin said:

sure, but it has nothing to do with the degradation of USA's relationship with its Allies...

and very little to do with who's in command in the White House in the lasts 13 months...

USA's economy was already one of the most performing economies of the world. and still...

 

Not sure where you are getting your info but take if from someone who's lives and works in the USA, you're getting bad intel.:thumbsup:

 

We'll just agree to disagree and move on.

Edited by GW8345
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6 hours ago, mingwin said:

if it was built elsewhere (than southern USA) it would be a whole lot easier  to select the F-35...

but since slightly more than 13 months, USA have adopted a (more and more)  bullying stance, even with Canada... 

 

as a Canadian, i have, since then, cancelled(or stopped) all my businesses with any entity south the border.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, GW8345 said:

And yet our economy is doing better than ever:thumbsup:

 

2 hours ago, mingwin said:

:rofl:...no in fact, i've just chosen "Canada First" as motto.  (then UK and Europe, Japan, OZ&NZ, HK and China...then...)

 

sure, but it has nothing to do with the degradation of USA's relationship with its Allies...

and very little to do with who's in command in the White House in the lasts 13 months...

USA's economy was already one of the most performing economies of the world. and still...

 

 

PLACE YOUR BETS, PLACE YOUR BETS, FOLKS........

 

When this thread starts heading down the drain, will it spin in a clock-wise, or counter-clock-wise motion until the ban hammer?

 

 

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7 hours ago, mingwin said:

if it was built elsewhere (than southern USA) it would be a whole lot easier  to select the F-35...

but since slightly more than 13 months, USA have adopted a (more and more)  bullying stance, even with Canada... 

 

as a Canadian, i have, since then, cancelled(or stopped) all my businesses with any entity south the border.

 

 

Uh oh, looks like I'll have to cancel my order with Canuk. 

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9 hours ago, mingwin said:

if it was built elsewhere (than southern USA) it would be a whole lot easier  to select the F-35...

but since slightly more than 13 months, USA have adopted a (more and more)  bullying stance, even with Canada... 

 

as a Canadian, i have, since then, cancelled(or stopped) all my businesses with any entity south the border.

 

 

 

We are currently a member of the F-35 program, we build components for the F-35. More than any other fighter out there.

 

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12 hours ago, MacStingy said:

Soooo.... what benifits will we taxpayers reap from buying used Hornets? Lower price? Allowing us to avoid on the depreciation following a New purchase like an auto? How can I justify this? What are the pros?

 

None, we should have proceeded with the F-35 purchase.

 

Why would we buy clapped out jets to replaced our fleet?

 

Sea King #2.

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8 hours ago, Scooby said:

 

None, we should have proceeded with the F-35 purchase.

 

Why would we buy clapped out jets to replaced our fleet?

 

Sea King #2.

My original thought, but I want to hear the  non political reasons for the decision. Is there a pot of gold in it that I’m not aware of? Sorry to kick the Hornet’s nest but things have been slow around here.

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It was a politically motivated decision to fill the "capability gap" that was create by the politicians so they could buy super hornets right now instead of the F-35. When they could no longer get away with buying Super Hornets without angering the public, they found the next best option that did not involve the F-35. More 30 year old jets that will cost more to fly than the jets we have now. They will be good for nothing but spare parts without spending hundreds of millions of dollars. 

 

If the original F-35 purchase was in place, we would be flying them now. If the current government had cancelled, and immediately went into a new selection process, we would be most likely getting aircraft now or soon. As it stands, 2025...and I am 100% sure that timeline will slip, even if a new government comes into power next year. 6 years out, and there hasn't even been a tender for bids yet.

 

Sean (trying to post this without getting too political one way or another)

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1 hour ago, MacStingy said:

My original thought, but I want to hear the  non political reasons for the decision. Is there a pot of gold in it that I’m not aware of? Sorry to kick the Hornet’s nest but things have been slow around here.

 

The original idea was drifted by ex-military leaders who saw the huge picture on how utterly misguided the interim Super Hornet purchase was. They knew the implications of setting up a new training program and all the infrastructure for an aircraft which was only going to be a short term solution. So they floated the idea of purchasing used Legacy Hornets. That was a sound idea. 

 

Now that the Super Hornet purchase is cancelled we should have moved forward with the program we already invested decades of money and resources.

 

Liberals made a mistake, but won’t admit to it.

 

I worked on our Hornets, they were old and tired when I retired 10 years ago. And the Australian Hornets are just as old.

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Sadly, like virtually every Canadian military procurement stretching back decades, it is a political issue.  Thus its difficult and almost impossible to separate the F-35 from politics. The PM made it a particularly heated political issue when he ran in the last election with the actual promise to not buy the F-35.  Period. Rather then leave himself an out by promising to review the F-35 he flat out said he'd not buy it. Not a very strategic move by him. Couple that with his (and his fellow Liberal Party members) continual slamming of the F-35 and what options did he leave himself and the Canadian tax payers once the SH deal went sour? He painted himself in a corner with very little recourse. Keep in mind that while he and his Party members were criticizing the F-35 other nations were selecting it, buying it, and training on it. As far as the Aussie Hornets go good on Australia for ditching them on Canada. They are the clear winners in this deal in my opinion. The Canadian tax payers are the losers. Sort of. I really feel bad for RCAF personnel who deserve better.

 

Oh well, by 2025 the RCAF can buy secondhand F-35's...maybe.

 

Regards.

 

P. S. Despite not liking the leader of Canada at the moment I still enjoy traveling and buying things in Canada.:rolleyes:

 

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1 hour ago, Don said:

 

 

Sadly, like virtually every Canadian military procurement stretching back decades, it is a political issue.  Thus its difficult and almost impossible to separate the F-35 from politics. The PM made it a particularly heated political issue when he ran in the last election with the actual promise to not buy the F-35.  Period. Rather then leave himself an out by promising to review the F-35 he flat out said he'd not buy it. Not a very strategic move by him. Couple that with his (and his fellow Liberal Party members) continual slamming of the F-35 and what options did he leave himself and the Canadian tax payers once the SH deal went sour? He painted himself in a corner with very little recourse. Keep in mind that while he and his Party members were criticizing the F-35 other nations were selecting it, buying it, and training on it. As far as the Aussie Hornets go good on Australia for ditching them on Canada. They are the clear winners in this deal in my opinion. The Canadian tax payers are the losers. Sort of. I really feel bad for RCAF personnel who deserve better.

 

Oh well, by 2025 the RCAF can buy secondhand F-35's...maybe.

 

Regards.

 

P. S. Despite not liking the leader of Canada at the moment I still enjoy traveling and buying things in Canada.:rolleyes:

 

 

The biggest irony of it all is the Liberals put us into the JSF program, which became the F-35, and signed us to the F-35 program. They even increased our membership to it.

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