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Launch rail for AIM-9B Sidewinder


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Hi.

I wonder if anyone has a good starting point to detail the launch rails for AIM-9B, (as found in the Tam kit for F-4 C/D).

Are those rails correct? From a tweaking list I learned that the Sidewinders are hybrid, so to replace by AM or adjust in length and change wing section.

No information on the rails though. No news good news? I don't know.

Some information would be welcome.

 

Kind regards,

 

Robert Jan

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If I'm not mistaken the F-4C/D used the LAU-7/A Sidewinder Missile Launcher, if you google "LAU-7/A Sidewinder Missile Launcher" you should be able to find pics and info on the launcher.

 

Note, the LAU-7 has been around for 55 years, while the launcher is basically the same as back then (on the exterior) there are two details you will need to ensure 1) for the AIM-9B, there would not be any fin retainers on the nose of the launcher (the AIM-9B didn't use fin retainers, those didn't come into use until the AIM-9D) and on the back end, the missile exhaust spoiler will need to be installed. See link below for a diagram of components.

 

http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14023/css/Lau-7-A-Series-Guided-Missile-Launcher-117.htm

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Thanks for the link GW8345. Really useful. It is not that I want to replicate everything, just want to know why and how thinks look like/work. Part from the Tam kit are so basic, it simply needs some attention, not just adding detail from an Big E etch. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Robert Jan

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I recommend:

 

Flying Leathernecks Models 1/48 LAU-7 MISSILE LAUNCHER STENCIL MARKINGS decals

 

The will give you good detail and make the LAU-7's look more accurate. You can find them on Ebay from a seller called "rebelalpha". I have several sets of those decals and they really make the LAU-7 look more realistic.

 

Also, it depends on the time frame you are doing, IIRC after 67 the AERO 3B was not authorized on the F-4C and I'm not sure if it was authorized before then.

 

 

Edited by GW8345
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I'm pretty sure the Tamiya kit includes the LAU-105 (same as Aero 3B?) which would be correct until Sept., 1968 after which the LAU-7A/A was used.

Jim Rotramel would be the guy to ask.

 

:cheers:

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Going by the time frame of the AIM-9B, the AF used the Aero 3B launcher,  and did so for some time as this pic of a F-4E with Aero 3 launchers:

 

DSC02933.jpg

 

has a 69 - 70 time frame according to the caption.The Aero 3B had a length of 87", width 3" and height 5".

 

edit: then again there is this photo of Robin Olds doing a walk around and you can tell the AIM-9 is on a LAU-7:

 

Robin_Olds_during_vietnam_war.jpg

 

the detent wrench is a give away along with the rounded nose fairing of the launcher.

 

Jari

Edited by Finn
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One other point I'd like to make, for the USN, the AERO 3B was only authorized for the AIM-9A/B/C. The reason is because AIM-9D's and above required Nitrogen cooling and the AERO 3B did not have Nitrogen cooling capability. The LAU-7 has a Nitrogen Bottle in the aft end that provides Nitrogen cooling for the missile

 

The Air Force utilizes the TMU-72 Nitrogen Bottle that goes right into the guidance section of the Sidewinder, the TMU-72 was not authorized for USN use until the mid 90's.

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  • 2 years later...
On 3/26/2018 at 3:27 PM, GW8345 said:

If I'm not mistaken the F-4C/D used the LAU-7/A Sidewinder Missile Launcher, if you google "LAU-7/A Sidewinder Missile Launcher" you should be able to find pics and info on the launcher.

 

Note, the LAU-7 has been around for 55 years, while the launcher is basically the same as back then (on the exterior) there are two details you will need to ensure 1) for the AIM-9B, there would not be any fin retainers on the nose of the launcher (the AIM-9B didn't use fin retainers, those didn't come into use until the AIM-9D) and on the back end, the missile exhaust spoiler will need to be installed. See link below for a diagram of components.

 

http://navyaviation.tpub.com/14023/css/Lau-7-A-Series-Guided-Missile-Launcher-117.htm

F-4C/D could carry the Aero-3/B or the LAU-7/A launchers.  Aero-3/B could only carry the Aim-9/B  

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2 hours ago, Ed2039 said:

F-4C/D could carry the Aero-3/B or the LAU-7/A launchers.  Aero-3/B could only carry the Aim-9/B  

 

But could the LAU-7 launch an AIM-9B ?

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AIM-9B used a lead sulphide uncooled seeker and was used by USN & USAF 

 

AIM-9C was SARH for use on F-8 Crusaders. Later converted to the AGM-122 Sidearm anti-radar missile. Navy missile.

 

AIM-9D — and follow-on G/H — used nitrogen gas cooling contained in launch rail. Navy missiles.

 

AIM-9E — and follow-on J/N/P — used Peltier effect thermoelectric cooling. USAF/FMS missiles.

 

AIM-9L/M used Sidewinder rail Nitrogen gas cooling in Navy versions and built-into-the-missile Argon gas cooling bottle in USAF/FMS versions.

 

The main thing with the USAF F-4s is that the Sidewinder rails were later given welded spacer arms (to allow clearance for stores slung on a TER directly under the inner wing pylon's MAU-12 rack) so stood out from the inner wing pylons by about six inches. 

The Navy used LAU-17 inner wing pylons on its F-4s and a simple ventral bolt-on spacer allowed them to continue using the 'closer' Sidewinder rails while fitted with TERs etc.

 

Can't remember which types of Sidewinder rails — snug or spaced-out — come in the Tamiya kits, but the distance from the pylon needs checking against photos. The details of the rails only become critical if no Sidewinders are fitted.

 

HTH 

 

Tony 

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The original Sidewinder launcher was the USN's AERO-3A that was used with the AIM-9A and AIM-9B (I'm going to use the post 1962 nomenclature here to avoid confusion). When the USAF adopted the AIM-9, they made a slight modification to the launcher to allow it to also fire the TDU-11 target rocket (basically a HVAR), resulting in the AERO-3B.

 

The Navy then developed the radar-guided AIM-9C and IR-guided AIM-9D. I've never seen documentation that the AIM-9C could be launched by using the AERO-3A--I suppose it could happen, but I kind of doubt it because of logistics. The AIM-9C was only used by the F-8 to give them a theoretical capability to defend 27C carriers that were too small to base F-4s on. Since they were used alongside AIM-9Ds, they probably used the same LAU-7/A launchers (my guess, no hard evidence).

 

As noted above, the AIM-9D (and follow on G & H) required the LAU-7 launcher that contained the nitrogen cooling bottle. At one point, the USAF wanted to buy the AIM-9D and purchased a small number of LAU-7A/A launchers in anticipation (the most famous proof of this is the photo of Robin Olds next to one of these launchers). However, the AIM-9D had a difficult development and the USAF needed missiles sooner than the Navy would be able to supply them. So, they chose to modify the AIM-9B into the AIM-9E (and follow-on AIM-9J, N & P). These missiles didn't need the nitrogen cooling bottle so they continued to use the AERO-3B.

 

After Vietnam, the USAF and USN jointly developed the AIM-9L (and follow-on AIM-9M). The USN variants of these missiles continued to use subsequent variants of the LAU-7 (up to at least the LAU-7F/A) because generating nitrogen is easy to do on a carrier. The USAF missiles used a small bottle of Argon instead of the nitrogen. They developed the LAU-105 which was used by the F-4, A-10 & F-111 and could launch the earlier AIM-9s or the AIM-9L & -9M. The F-15 needed a launcher that could withstand higher g loading and the LAU-114 was developed for it. 

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Interesting about the C model being SARH.  I always assumed all AIM-9s were heat seeking, hence the name Sidewinder - like the snake (a pit viper that senses heat).  Or I guess it could also refer to the locomotion pattern of the snake as the missile spirals towards the target.

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The original AIM-9A lacked rollerons on the aft outer corner of its wings. When it was launched at high altitudes it corkscrewed through the air, looking kind of like how a snake trail looks in the sand. It thus was named Sidewinder, although the addition of rollers to the AIM-9B pretty much eliminated that characteristic.

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On 7/1/2020 at 11:36 PM, mrvark said:

At one point, the USAF wanted to buy the AIM-9D and purchased a small number of LAU-7A/A launchers in anticipation (the most famous proof of this is the photo of Robin Olds next to one of these launchers).

All pictures of F-4Cs I have seen so far (also in ANG service until the end) show LAU-7 launchers.

B/r

Michael

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