High Drag MK82 in Vietnam

[Mizar]

GW8345 one question that probably was answered either there or on Britmodeller but I have lost track of many things and google search isn't helping at all

 

On station 2 and 8 could you carry and launch an Aim-9 if bombs or rocket pods were in?Or you had to expend the hanged ordnance before firing it?

Could a slanted load of a single Aim-9 in the inner station with a bomb/rocket pod in the center and outward TER station allow the Aim-9 to be fired without releasing hanged ordnance?

 

Luigi

[GW8345]

IIRC

 

For USN F-4's, it was physically possible to launch Sidewinders with weapon/stores loaded on the TER on station 2 and 8. With that said, it wasn't common practice and not recommended but you could do it. 99.9% of the time, if you were going to launch a Sidewinder you were going to get rid of any air to mud weapon/stores, you normally don't go into a dogfight lugging around a bunch of bombs.

 

A slant load of bombs on one side with a Sidewinder on the opposite side was not uncommon.

 

 

For USAF F-4 Phantom's, you physically could not launch a Sidewinder with weapon/stores loaded on the TER's since on the USAF LAU-17's (station 2 and 8 pylon) the LAU-7/AERO 3B were mounted with a 5 degree downward tilt. On USN LAU-17's, the LAU-7/AERO-3B mounted straight out from the pylon (90 degrees) so there wasn't a clearance issue like that on the USAF F-4's.

 

hth

GW

[Rex]

That "didn't carry wing tanks while on the boat" meme seems to be one of those "squadron rules", not fleet wide.

 

If you have a medium sized Phantom and Vietnam library, you will find over 100 photos of pre-Vietnam era and actual Vietnam era Phantom photos with two drop tanks, both on the deck, and in the air over the war zone. *1

 

Some squadrons seem to have never been photographed with wing tanks while on the ship. Those photos that only ever show center tanks may be why people think the wing tanks were rarely carried.

 

*1,,,,,,,and yes, I did search the BuNos and nose numbers in my book collection to make sure they weren't aircraft from the shore based build up time before a cruise.

[twong]

Wing tanks

 

MER's on outer wing

[Rex]

Great link to the PDF, Gerry.

 

Twong, note that the Aardvark in the foreground appears to have the Royal Jet tanks on the outer wing. Photos of those are somewhat rare.

[the_baphomet_00]

On 27/3/2018 at 4:25 PM, twong said:

This one has a mix load and you can see a Mk.82 Snake Eye on the lowest attachment of the TER.

 

Whoa!

Thanks for sharing,

 

I wonder if the slick bomb on the TER´s outer attachment point is a Mk.83? It looks somehow bigger than those Snake Eyes on both inner and lower attachment points...

TIA,

 

 

 

[GW8345]

12 minutes ago, the_baphomet_00 said:

 

Whoa!

Thanks for sharing,

 

I wonder if the slick bomb on the TER´s outer attachment point is a Mk.83? It looks somehow bigger than those Snake Eyes on both inner and lower attachment points...

TIA,

 

 

 

Yep, it's a Mk 83

[Finn]

A few Navy F-4 photos here:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/135708547@N03/albums/72157684184966884/page9

 

Jari

[Mizar]

On 3/30/2018 at 12:32 AM, GW8345 said:

IIRC

 

For USN F-4's, it was physically possible to launch Sidewinders with weapon/stores loaded on the TER on station 2 and 8. With that said, it wasn't common practice and not recommended but you could do it. 99.9% of the time, if you were going to launch a Sidewinder you were going to get rid of any air to mud weapon/stores, you normally don't go into a dogfight lugging around a bunch of bombs.

 

A slant load of bombs on one side with a Sidewinder on the opposite side was not uncommon.

 

 

For USAF F-4 Phantom's, you physically could not launch a Sidewinder with weapon/stores loaded on the TER's since on the USAF LAU-17's (station 2 and 8 pylon) the LAU-7/AERO 3B were mounted with a 5 degree downward tilt. On USN LAU-17's, the LAU-7/AERO-3B mounted straight out from the pylon (90 degrees) so there wasn't a clearance issue like that on the USAF F-4's.

 

hth

GW

 

 

Thanks GW

 

going to fix some stuff for the upcoming builds ^^

 

Luigi

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Mizar

[viper730]

On 3/30/2018 at 10:10 PM, Finn said:

A few Navy F-4 photos here:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/135708547@N03/albums/72157684184966884/page9

 

Jari

Great Vietnam Photos here..... THANK YOU for the link.

[stalal]

Are there examples of mixed loadout on F-4 Phantom?

 

I was wondering if a Multiple Ejection Rack on one outboard pylon and a fuel tank on another is a possible, operation loadout.

[GW8345]

2 hours ago, stalal said:

Are there examples of mixed loadout on F-4 Phantom?

 

I was wondering if a Multiple Ejection Rack on one outboard pylon and a fuel tank on another is a possible, operation loadout.

From everything I've seen, read, heard.........no, it's not a possible/operational loadout.

 

USN F-4's rarely flew with wing drop tanks. I remember discussing wing tanks with my dad who was in VF-31 from 72-75, he told me that they only time they flew wing tanks was when they were going somewhere like Fallon, Puerto Rico, etc.

 

Now, is it a legal load, yes, has it been done, don't know.

 

As far as examples of mix-loadout's, tons of pics on the interwebs.

 

hth

GW

[ChesshireCat]

2 hours ago, GW8345 said:

From everything I've seen, read, heard.........no, it's not a possible/operational loadout.

 

USN F-4's rarely flew with wing drop tanks. I remember discussing wing tanks with my dad who was in VF-31 from 72-75, he told me that they only time they flew wing tanks was when they were going somewhere like Fallon, Puerto Rico, etc.

 

Now, is it a legal load, yes, has it been done, don't know.

 

As far as examples of mix-loadout's, tons of pics on the interwebs.

 

hth

GW

We almost never saw a Navy plane dropping a bomb out west. They had their own set of troubles to deal with. We used Marines most of the time, unless it was a B52 or you were in deep trouble and somebody was rolling thru the area with some left overs under their wings. Phantoms almost always had wing tanks going out of Chu Lai and DaNang. A Navy plane would be a rare sight unless it was shot to pieces making an emergency landing (Chu Lai for some odd reason was the main diversionary landing point) if a Phantom in there had wing tanks they were stolen. Wing tanks were a must south of the 17th Parallel, as there was no way to refuel till you got back home. A KC135 was kept in orbit due west of us (over Laos), but couldn't fuel up a Navy plane. I'd have to assume the Navy had their own refueling aircraft out to sea just like the Air Force did. 

 

When I first got into the combat zone, bombing runs were done by who was out there at the time. A lot of bombs were simply wasted. They all wasted bombs and also dropped quite a few short just as they did long. Rolling in on the deck a Phantom is a piece of work to fly (just from watching them). While a lowly A4 seemed like it was just glued to the ground. The real game changer was when they finally started using the A6 Intruder (only A7's we saw were shot up) for CAS. Marines flew them, and they'd put the stuff in your pocket in the middle of the night. Marine pilots were simply the finest CAS pilots out there without a doubt. I never saw a single Skyraider bombing run, but have heard they were also very good. F100's from the Air Force were pretty good as well because they could fly well on a 150 feet off the ground. F105's never bombed very close to us, but we often watched them working over garden spots on the trail. They couldn't really slow down to that crawling pace so much desired, but could fly very well on the deck. Where as a Skyraider or A4  seemed like it was setting still in a bombing run

gary

[stalal]

Did Phantom ever carry a mix load of bombs? Like some Snakeeyes mixed with Mk81 & 82 bombs in one loadout. 

[ChesshireCat]

18 hours ago, stalal said:

Did Phantom ever carry a mix load of bombs? Like some Snakeeyes mixed with Mk81 & 82 bombs in one loadout. 

I've seen them with napalm, and dumb bombs many times, as well as rocket pods and other stuff. I don't remember ever seeing them with bombs and rockets at the same time, but could be wrong. F100's used to mix it up quite a bit, but Marine jets pretty much stayed with one weapon unless it was napalm. 

gary

[GW8345]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:47 AM, stalal said:

Did Phantom ever carry a mix load of bombs? Like some Snakeeyes mixed with Mk81 & 82 bombs in one loadout. 

DOn't know of any times they mixed Mk 81/82 Snakeyes but there is a picture of a VF-32 F-4B on the USS Roosevelt (CVA-42) with a mix of Mk 83 conical fin bombs and Mk 82 Snakeye;

 

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/mcdonell-douglas-f4-phantom-2--8725793015717669/

 

Mixing Mk 81 and Mk 82 Snakeyes is possible (the rules were very relaxed back then) but I don't have any proof that it was actually done.

 

hth

GW

[Finn]

Here is a F-4 with bombs and rockets:

 

 

another F-4 with a ext tank under one wing a MER under the other:

 

 

Snake and Nape:

 

 

Jari

[stalal]

Did Navy F-4s ever carry machine gun pods like SUU-23? Or was it only carried by USAF Phantoms? 

[Finn]

Not so much the Navy F-4s but Marine F-4s carried the Mark 4 20mm gun pod:

 

 

Jari

[ChesshireCat]

6 hours ago, Finn said:

Not so much the Navy F-4s but Marine F-4s carried the Mark 4 20mm gun pod:

 

 

Jari

was just thinking about the gun pods on a Phantom, and I honestly can only remember one time. It was two Marine F4's (no idea what model)

following a C130 just lumbering along over valleys just north of the Que Son Valley (have no idea what the proper name was as we called it "Indian Country" and Antenna Valley.") The C130 was carrying several pallets that had four 55 gallon barrels of napalm. They'd push one out and the Phantom would follow the parachute till it hits ground.

Then about twenty seconds later the other Phantom would roll in with 20mm cannon fire lighting up the napalm. Looked like a giant snake on fire. After that we watched them move west about a quarter mile and do it again

gary

[ChesshireCat]

to add to this quagmire, I spoke with a crewman off the Saratoga during the Vietnam war. He said they did start to use wing tanks again in 1972 (seems like Bill said late 72).

Was that for everybody? I don't know.  Napalm was forbidden off the flight deck, but some wings were moved to shore and used it. He said to look for Da Nang based Navy aircraft as this move was done several times

gary