VT F-16C-25 PIDS pylon question (with GBU-31)

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Working on this beautiful worn-out bird for my Vermont ANG collection (7 strong so far). 

Supposedly had only one of the two central wing pylons (sta 3 or 7) as a PIDS unit, the other plain/standard. It was suggested the GBU-31 would've been fitted to the PIDS, but is that a given?

Does the GBU-31 HAVE to be on PIDS? Can't tell for sure, but it *looks* like a standard pylon on the -31 (sta 3), or am I wrong??

Photo dated August 2004 if it makes a difference.

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy

[Niels]

I believe in the "early years" of PIDS, they couldn't carry JDAM's, however this had changed by Libya 2011 campaign, when several nations carried GBU-38/54's on PIDS's. 

[Mr Matt Foley]

What is the PIDS? I googled it and found it on the Norge F-16's and in once instance it said (TERMA) as well.

[Niels]

Pylon Integrated Dispenser System - basically chaff and flare buckets built into the station 3/7 pylons of the F-16, to allow intially earlier model F-16's carry more chaff and flares. Later developed into the EPIDS, which in addition to extra chaff and flares also have missile detection devices built in. 

 

The pylon is developed by Terma of Denmark, and used by most European air forces that flies the F-16, in addition to the US ANG, UAE and others. 

https://www.terma.com/aeronautics/self-protection-systems/self-protection-solutions/electronic-warfare-solutions-for-fighters/

Edited May 1, 2018 by Niels

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Okay, so probably the -31 pylon is standard, and probably a PIDS on the other side with the GBU-12's?

[achterkirch]

There’s a pic in the modern viper guide with the PIDS pylon and a TER loaded with GBU-12’s on the same side as your picture above so I would say it’s possible. 

 

 

[achterkirch]

1 hour ago, Niels said:

Pylon Integrated Dispenser System - basically chaff and flare buckets built into the station 3/7 pylons of the F-16, to allow intially earlier model F-16's carry more chaff and flares. Later developed into the EPIDS, which in addition to extra chaff and flares also have missile detection devices built in. 

 

The pylon is developed by Terma of Denmark, and used by most European air forces that flies the F-16, in addition to the US ANG, UAE and others. 

https://www.terma.com/aeronautics/self-protection-systems/self-protection-solutions/electronic-warfare-solutions-for-fighters/

I believe FY 87 and later F-16’s with in the ANG don’t need it as they have two more chaff/flair buckets. 

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

But this was an 85, so only the initial two.

[Exgbuloader]

Hi Andrew,

 

   When my unit, the 181st Intelligence Wing, had F-16s, we carried the PIDS in Turkey in 2003 and the larger JDAM could be carried but the large fin would have interfered with chaff and flare dispensing. Ours was station 7 and station 3 was the standard pylon. We carried TERs with slant load of GBU-12s most of the time. I worked with Vermont in 2007 and at that time, they were on carrying a single GBU-38 and GBU-12. I believe 12 was always carried on station 3 due to the interference of the larger fin as well. 

 

Pat, 

[BillS]

I’ll take a stab. We had PIDs at the 301st back in the early mid 2000s. The chaff buckets prominently faced outboard. The sta. 3 pylon on your jet is a standard pylon. Does anyone out there even do some PIDs? 

   That’s a well worn warhorse,; a far cry ftom the way we kept 16s in TAC of the 1980s. Those jets had touch ups on top of touch ups!

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Yep, the PIDS are included in the Revell/Germany 72nd kit. Was leaning toward PIDS on 7 with the slant two of 12's, in hopes that's what the bird in the pics above has.

 

So, it comes down to, PIDS 7 or no PIDS 7?

[achterkirch]

38 minutes ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

But this was an 85, so only the initial two.

Yup. Block 25’s only had two. 

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

K then....what's then consensus? For 2004, should I just go with standard pylons on BOTH sides, or risk a PIDS on 7 with the slant-2 -12's?

 

What would y'all do?

[Mr Matt Foley]

2 hours ago, Niels said:

Pylon Integrated Dispenser System - basically chaff and flare buckets built into the station 3/7 pylons of the F-16, to allow intially earlier model F-16's carry more chaff and flares. Later developed into the EPIDS, which in addition to extra chaff and flares also have missile detection devices built in. 

 

The pylon is developed by Terma of Denmark, and used by most European air forces that flies the F-16, in addition to the US ANG, UAE and others. 

https://www.terma.com/aeronautics/self-protection-systems/self-protection-solutions/electronic-warfare-solutions-for-fighters/

 

Thanks for the lesson!

[Niels]

6 hours ago, achterkirch said:

I believe FY 87 and later F-16’s with in the ANG don’t need it as they have two more chaff/flair buckets. 

 

No, PIDS have been carried also by FY87 (120FS CO ANG) and even Block 60's of the UAE. It's all about having enough countermeasures... ;) 

 

For modelling the picture in post 1, I would use the standard pod for the JDAM, and a PIDS for the slant mounted GBU-12's on a TER. 

 

In 1/48, the only PIDS is the ones that comes with the Kinetic kit. So far no aftermarket unfortunatelly :(

Edited May 2, 2018 by Niels

[achterkirch]

3 hours ago, Niels said:

 

No, PIDS have been carried also by FY87 (120FS CO ANG) and even Block 60's of the UAE. It's all about having enough countermeasures... ;) 

 

For modelling the picture in post 1, I would use the standard pod for the JDAM, and a PIDS for the slant mounted GBU-12's on a TER. 

 

In 1/48, the only PIDS is the ones that comes with the Kinetic kit. So far no aftermarket unfortunatelly :(

Really?   I guess I haven’t seen pics but doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. 

 

Edit: found some proof.  Your not lying. Thanks for the info!  https://hiveminer.com/Tags/coloradoairnationalguard,jet

Edited May 2, 2018 by achterkirch

[admiralcag]

Make sure your buckets are facing outboard.

 

I was with the 140th Wing and Niels is correct. I can't remember the year break, but IIRC the 86 birds had one chaff/flare dispenser on each side. The 87s had three on the left and one on the right. We flew PIDS to bring up the number of dispensers. Slant GBU-12's on a TER on the PIDS on station 7.

 

Vern

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Yep, thanks, I went back and saw how they are molded in; looks like Revell got it right, differing ones for left and right.

 

Really appreciate it folks!

[Matt Walker]

Shull24 made a PIDS pylon, if you can find one!

 

M

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

Actually I'm lucky; I'm making this early C out of the 1/72 Revell -16A MLU, and it comes with the PIDS.

Ain't every day we 1/72 folks have the advantage😁 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy

[Mr Matt Foley]

13 hours ago, Matt Walker said:

Shull24 made a PIDS pylon, if you can find one!

 

M

 

I sure wish Shawn could find his Mojo to get back in the game. I could think of a number of accessories he could help us with.......especially if he took a leap into 1/32.

[Falconxlvi]

5 hours ago, Mr Matt Foley said:

 

I sure wish Shawn could find his Mojo to get back in the game. I could think of a number of accessories he could help us with.......especially if he took a leap into 1/32.

100% agree!  I kick myself for not buying more of his stuff once he announced he was leaving the biz. Best JDAMs out there.  

[Niels]

Wish we were as lucky in 1/48 😆

 

Shull's PIDS were very nice, but modeled on Hasegawa's pylons and hence had too small supports. If he ever restart production a PIDS based on the Tamiya would be most welcome (Y)